Bridging Gaps in Mental Health Trainings: Vanya Garabedian on Facing Fear and Facilitating Change

Natasha Moharter: 00:00:04

Welcome to the Continuing Education for Mental

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Health Professionals podcast.

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Today we are hosting another CEU

Provider Spotlight Conversation.

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This is where we learn more

about CEU providers in our

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community and their journeys.

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My name is Natasha Moharter, and I'm a

licensed counselor and OCD specialist.

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I run the Facebook group CE for Mental

Health Professionals, and if you're a

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mental health professional, we'd love

to have you join us in that space.

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I am so excited because we are joined by

our very special guest, Vanya Gadabedian.

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With over 20 years of experience in

the mental health field, Vanya offers

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a rich and diverse range of expertise.

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As the founder of Intentional Path

Counseling, she is dedicated to fostering

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supportive, engaging, and informative

environments for learning and growth.

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She has expertise in supporting providers

to engage in their own healing journeys

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so they can better support the people

and communities they care for with a

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focus on trauma, diversity, equity,

inclusion, ethics, and supervision.

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Welcome Vanya, it is such a

pleasure to have you here today.

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Vanya Garabedian: Thank you.

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I'm so excited to be here.

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Natasha Moharter: Can you share a

little bit about your background

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and what got you interested in

becoming a creator and CEU provider?

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Vanya Garabedian: Oh man.

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So I really enjoy facilitation and

supporting others and showing up

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in ways that I can be helpful in

the communities that I'm a part of.

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So kind of combining my passion

with recognizing that I'm effective

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at doing these things has really

driven me to, start doing this.

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And I have a really strong belief to

like with privilege comes responsibility.

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I have this information, I

have this skillset, I have this

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perspective, I have this experience.

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And with that, I feel pretty

strongly comes a responsibility

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to do what I can to share support

and enable growth for others too.

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Natasha Moharter: What have been

your favorite parts of this journey

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into content creation and training?

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Vanya Garabedian: Oh my gosh.

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I think my absolute favorite part

is the people that I get to meet

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and the growth that I get to see.

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Like there is nothing that I like

better than watching someone go from

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one place to another in a direction that

they haven't been able to move before

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or a new insight, a new awareness.

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I'm really driven by people, uh, and

community building and connection.

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Yeah, that's what I love.

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I also get pretty nerdy with

information and research.

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So I really enjoy the deep

dives too into information.

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Natasha Moharter: One of the things

that I think about with content creation

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is by the time that they are done

taking our training, what is it that

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we hope to help them to accomplish?

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What can they implement as soon as

they are done with our training?

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And it sounds like you have

discovered your ability to be able

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to be that support that bridge.

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Vanya Garabedian: Yeah.

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I love that you use the term "bridge."

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Cause that's kind of how I think of myself

because of the different worlds that I've

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had the privilege of getting to walk in

like whiteness and, and people of color.

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Like I have always just naturally

been a bridge in these two worlds

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because of my different experiences.

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There's so much divisiveness in the

world today and in our country and

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how can I do my little brick in the

wall to support bridging these gaps.

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Natasha Moharter: And from

what I see, it seems like you

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really are making an impact.

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It can be scary to have an opinion

that some people might not agree with.

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Vanya Garabedian: Yes.

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So like that is something that I

have had to work on a great deal and

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continue to work on is that anxiety and

anxiousness around, oof, the more I do

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this, the more I'm putting myself out

there and the more I become a potential

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target or, whatever you want to say a

potential person people look to, and

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that's kind of terrifying to be honest.

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That scares me.

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And, And I guess like I learned, uh, in

my, my mid twenties, I guess, uh, that,

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uh, courage is walking through that fear.

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So I've really kind of held onto that.

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It's like, okay, we're

just going to keep walking.

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We're going to keep walking.

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Natasha Moharter: I so appreciate

that realness as well, because, one

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of the things that has been brought

up in conversations about content

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creation and putting our work out

there and picking up the training and

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expertise that we have and sharing it

even in these types of CEU trainings.

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It can be intimidating.

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It can feel like.

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But do I really know this?

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When we have a subject to teach we know

that we learn it a little bit better.

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And so we get a little bit more

in depth knowledge with it.

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But it can be really intimidating to

just kind of take those first steps and

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say, Hey, I'm going to post the thing.

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Hey, I'm going to put myself out there.

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I'm going to be seen because we know that

not everybody is going to agree with us.

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And yet there's going to be so many

people that need us with our voice,

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with the way that we look, our

experience, our background, to bring

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that voice and to be that contributor.

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Vanya Garabedian: Absolutely.

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It's like uh, how do I do

it even though it's hard?

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That's kind of a mantra that goes

on in my head, as well as like,

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slow down without stopping is

something I'm currently working on.

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Yeah, it's challenging and

scary and all the things.

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And I don't know how to not do

it cause it's so important to me.

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And there is a personal benefit I get from

it too, because you're absolutely right.

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I gain knowledge.

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I gain understanding into myself and

my experience, which is invaluable.

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Absolutely.

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And I, I, that's one of my favorite parts

about it too, that you asked earlier.

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It's like the learning and

growth that I get to do.

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Natasha Moharter: That was something in

our first meeting that really stood out

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to me is, I think we're both learners

and we like to continue to learn.

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And we're also maybe willing to challenge

ourselves, to be open to new information.

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I think you have to be, especially in

your role where you're teaching and

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you're presenting on some of these really

important topics that people might have

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feelings about, but to be confident

in what you're saying and also willing

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to learn and take in new information.

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And that's very much

what I see you embody.

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Vanya Garabedian: Yeah, thank you.

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It's really important.

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I believe this strongly that those of us

that are working in the service fields

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of supporting people through their

growth to say the hard thing, to bring

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the hard conversation and to do it in a

way where we're not, isolating anybody.

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I mean, it's not going

to be perfect, right?

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I make mistakes all the time.

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And I actually use that

as part of my learning.

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Like, I'm going to demonstrate to you

how fallible I am and how human I am.

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And hopefully that creates space

for people to be vulnerable.

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It's really, I think, like, it's important

for me to say the hard thing and bring

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the, because if we're not, if not us, who?

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We are like the front lines in

mental health and supporting

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people in their growth.

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Who, if it's not us?

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Natasha Moharter: Right.

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Going back to that sense

of kind of responsibility.

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And what keeps us going, for sure.

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So, next question, what have been

some of your least favorite parts

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into this journey of content creation?

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Vanya Garabedian: Yeah, so I

am pretty severely ADD, like

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I have been my whole life.

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So I get lost in information and

I have like this, and I don't know

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if it's my least favorite part.

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Well, I guess this is the

most challenging part.

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I'll say it like that.

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So I get, I, I, I'm out here, I'm

in the macro and it's a lot of time

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and energy for me to bring it in.

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So the most challenging part I'll say

is when I'm doing the deep dive and

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I'm doing the research and all of that,

I end up with so much information and

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such this huge kind of thing that it's,

it's a process that I've learned about

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myself and how I go through it and have

worked on some acceptance around it.

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And it's still challenging to bring it

in to where we are right here, right now

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and how I can kind of get lost in that.

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I guess maybe the least

favorite part might be.

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Putting the folders together.

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Like, yeah, like that, that

actual administrative part, right?

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Like making the copies, putting the

folders together and PowerPoints.

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I'm not, I'll be honest.

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I am not a fan and I do them and I

provide them because it's beneficial

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and there's different kinds of

learners and it's a struggle.

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So that's challenging for me as well.

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Natasha Moharter: Again, I so

appreciate your realness with this.

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What I've kind of stumbled upon

is that a lot of us content

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creators are neurodivergent.

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And that natural struggle that comes with

it and like, we can get bored easily.

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Do you have any kind of tips

and tricks for anybody who

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might also struggle with this?

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Vanya Garabedian: Oh my gosh.

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It's so funny.

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Cause I do get bored easily, which is

also one of the reasons I do so many

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of the things that you see me doing.

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Cause if I'm doing just one thing,

I just, I can't, I need to do other

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things as well to keep myself invested.

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And for me, what's really important is

I have to be passionate about it because

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of all the, you know, the background

work, like there's so much that goes

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into for me, like a training, like what

people are seeing is like just a tip of,

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the iceberg of work that's underneath.

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And in order for me to be able

to stay engaged in that iceberg

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of work, I have to be, for me, I

have to be passionate about it.

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So I really encourage people to go with

what they resonate with, what they, it's

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not hard for them to get their values

in alignment with, like I'm not going to

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do workshops around topics that they're,

they're important and they're helpful.

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And I'm going to let the ones who

have that passion and drive do those.

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Cause it's just going to end up feeling

tedious and laborious because it,

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it is a lot of, it's a lot of labor.

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So I, I really need to be invested

and in alignment with my values

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and what I think is important.

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Natasha Moharter: And time is

our most valuable resource.

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And so if we're going to spend time

engaged in research and training,

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it really does matter what we're

studying or what we're interested in.

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And then I think it really can come

across in our trainings as well.

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Vanya Garabedian: Absolutely.

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I don't know if you've ever been to

a training where you can tell the

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person is just really not, they're just

doing their job, that I can't do it.

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I learned that about myself

at a very early age too.

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Like if I'm going to be working,

I'm going to do something that

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I'm really passionate about.

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Natasha Moharter: So another question, you

have a passion for supporting providers

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to engage in their own healing journey

so that they can better support the

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people and communities they care for.

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What is it about these topics that

gives you energy and commitment to keep

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getting out there and training others?

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Vanya Garabedian: Oh my gosh.

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It's so important.

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It's such important work.

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And it's one of my top values as a

person in this world, existing with

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other people in this world, and

also my own personal experience.

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And when I was in school, they're like,

Oh, this whole cultural competency.

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And I remember thinking, how am I

expected to be culturally competent

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on other people's cultures?

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And it didn't make sense to me.

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And what I understood was I, the

only person I can be an expert

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on is me and my experience.

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And that for me and my practice and

how I show up in the world is the most

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important thing for me to be an expert on.

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Cause if I can understand

my life, my experience.

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I remember when I first learned

like that, I had a story, it was

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before I got into this field, right?

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Like, I was like, Oh,

everyone has a story then.

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It's so important for me to

understand my own experience, to

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do my healing around my wounds.

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So many people get into this field,

let's be honest, because they've

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had really challenging lives.

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And it is a wealth of information

and experience people bring to it.

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And sometimes there can be a

missed opportunity to do the

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healing and work around that.

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And then unintended harm happens.

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And I've experienced the unintended harm.

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I've watched the unintended harm.

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And again, it goes back to

this core value of mine.

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Like we're fallible, we're human,

we're all doing the best that we can.

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And how do we do better?

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So how do I be a part of that solution

to support people in doing better?

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I can't be an expert on you.

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I've lived in New Mexico since 2002.

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I'm not an expert on New Mexican culture.

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And it would be insulting

and rude to say that I was.

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Cause we all have our glasses, right?

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That we're seeing the world

through literally and figuratively.

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So how can I get clear on what

is mine so I can put it aside.

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I'm not trying to get rid of

my identity or anyone else's or

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erasure or anything like that.

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If I'm committed to supporting people

and their journey, how do I put my

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experience aside so I can be present

so they can teach me who they are.

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And that is such a core to what I do.

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Natasha Moharter: How does my

lens influence how I'm showing up?

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We're all the, the hero in our own story.

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Vanya Garabedian: It's so important.

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Like the storytelling, right?

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Like my family history is storytelling.

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We don't have a paper trail until my

grandparents made it to the United States.

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So previous to that,

it's all storytelling.

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And there's a lot of

bad people in my story.

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Like there's a lot of bad characters.

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And of course we're the ones who were, you

know, whatever, like we're in the right.

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And I'm not saying that isn't

correct because genocide's a

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part of my, my family history.

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What I'm saying is the people who

harmed my family in my story were

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also the heroes and their story.

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I so appreciate that you said that.

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And we were the bad guy.

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And how can I, and it requires me

doing my own, I do a lot of, I do

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a lot of trauma work for myself.

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And how do I heal these, these wounds,

these generational experiences.

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And so if somebody comes into

my office that represents

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whatever, my "bad guy", right?

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Like how can I get to a place where I

can create a space for them as well?

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And again, I feel like if we're

going to be in this type of work

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and I know everybody doesn't feel

this way, and I want to be clear,

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people get to have boundaries.

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They get to decide populations

that they work with.

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For me, I have chosen,

I want to be a bridge.

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That means I'm going to be working

with people who don't agree

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with me, disagree, whatever.

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I'm going to be working

with all walks of life.

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So it becomes incredibly important for

those of us that choose that to be able

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to create the same inclusive space for the

person that agrees exactly opposite of me.

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The other thing that you made me think

of is like the decolonizing work, right?

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Like we talked about a little bit

before we got on here, like that

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idea of what is professionalism?

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Well, how are we supposed to show up?

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And I was nervous.

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I mean, I told you I'm nervous being here.

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I've never done anything like this.

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So if I can just like name that, and who

told me I had to be perfect and upfront

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and, you know, not make any mistakes.

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It's not realistic.

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We're all doing the best that we can.

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If I have not had an opportunity to learn

to do something differently, why, why

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am I going to be expected to do that?

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And what makes me feel like I

can judge someone else for it?

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Cause I don't know their story.

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I don't know if they've

had an opportunity.

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It can be controversial even in

the circles that I walk in because

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there's people like wrong is

wrong, like right racism is wrong.

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I agree a hundred and ten percent.

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How do I see the human that is caught in

these beliefs so I can support that human?

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And getting through

that to the other side.

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And I've actually gotten to witness

that, which is really exciting.

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There's nothing more exciting than having

a racist come to me for, for therapy.

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And I get to support their transformation

and come to the other side.

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Like that is like everything to me.

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So for me to be up at the front or

teaching people and acting like, so

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this is what we're going to do today.

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And this is what's professional,

blah, blah, blah, blah.

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I am doing people a disservice.

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I'm not giving them any

permission to be human.

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I'm not giving them any

permission to be fallible.

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I'm unintentionally possibly creating

self judgment in people and it no longer

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is a space where people feel like they

can speak up and say, say the hard

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thing, which is, or challenge themselves,

which is really what I'm focused on.

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Natasha Moharter: It's so neat to hear

just your values and what's important

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to you and how you show up with

clients, the framework that you use

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: 00:16:05

when you say, you know, I am choosing

to work with certain people that

304

: 00:16:09

might very heavily disagree with me.

305

: 00:16:11

And I'm okay with that because I've

done my own work and I'm willing to show

306

: 00:16:14

up and, like you said, be that bridge.

307

: 00:16:16

And it's definitely okay that

we choose and we have certain

308

: 00:16:20

boundaries on certain things.

309

: 00:16:21

There are people like that, if we only

stay in our own little groups, then how

310

: 00:16:26

does that information get communicated?

311

: 00:16:28

How can we humanize each other if

we are just othering all the time.

312

: 00:16:32

And I think about the topics that

you teach on that you train on.

313

: 00:16:36

All of that, I could see where that is

so incredibly important to have the value

314

: 00:16:41

system that you do and your willingness

to go into very uncomfortable spaces.

315

: 00:16:45

It's not fun when people disagree with us.

316

: 00:16:47

And yet to be able to say,

okay, but you're human.

317

: 00:16:50

And how can we go forward here?

318

: 00:16:52

Conflict doesn't have

to equal disconnection.

319

: 00:16:56

Vanya Garabedian: Absolutely.

320

: 00:16:56

And like with that, it's funny.

321

: 00:16:58

Cause somebody reached out to me,

another clinician, a colleague who

322

: 00:17:02

was like, you teach the hard stuff.

323

: 00:17:04

You do the hard trainings.

324

: 00:17:05

And it's so funny.

325

: 00:17:06

Cause to me, it's not hard.

326

: 00:17:08

Is it challenging?

327

: 00:17:09

Yes.

328

: 00:17:09

It's almost like, I don't

know what else I would do.

329

: 00:17:12

And being aware that for a lot of

people, it's really hard to like look at.

330

: 00:17:17

And I mean, there's so many

reasons why it's not hard for me.

331

: 00:17:21

Uh, Not meaning that I know

it all or get it perfectly.

332

: 00:17:25

It's just, I don't know

how not to be challenged.

333

: 00:17:27

Is that a trauma response?

334

: 00:17:28

Is that this overdeveloped sense of

responsibility and all of these things?

335

: 00:17:31

And I don't even know if it matters as

much as like, what am I doing with it?

336

: 00:17:35

And if this is what I'm skillful at,

I'm, I'm good at being challenged.

337

: 00:17:41

I'm okay with that.

338

: 00:17:41

Like, let's do it.

339

: 00:17:43

You know, let's get in there.

340

: 00:17:44

I also want to be really clear.

341

: 00:17:45

People get to have their boundaries.

342

: 00:17:46

Like I know people who want to only work

with this population or that population.

343

: 00:17:51

I think that is just as important.

344

: 00:17:53

I think there's room

and space for all of it.

345

: 00:17:56

And we need this diverse, population

of providers to be able to show

346

: 00:18:01

up, and supportive people to walk

alongside of them and give people

347

: 00:18:06

spaces to do what they need to do.

348

: 00:18:09

Natasha Moharter: And it's really

neat how even just now you're talking

349

: 00:18:11

about how your history, how your story

influences the work that you do, the

350

: 00:18:15

trainings that you put together, the

topics that you're interested in.

351

: 00:18:19

And like you said, it's not,

unfamiliar to be challenged or to be

352

: 00:18:22

in that space of critical thinking.

353

: 00:18:24

Vanya Garabedian: This might sound

egotistical and feel free to edit it out.

354

: 00:18:28

But I was thinking like, I remember at

a young age, in my twenties, I'm like,

355

: 00:18:31

I just want to get paid to be myself.

356

: 00:18:34

How can I do that?

357

: 00:18:36

And it took me a lifetime.

358

: 00:18:38

I worked in mental and behavioral

health since like the age of like 27.

359

: 00:18:43

In like you know, those

front line staff positions.

360

: 00:18:45

So I remember thinking, like, how

do I just get paid to be myself?

361

: 00:18:50

Because I was not a happy

person in this world.

362

: 00:18:53

I was not somebody who wanted

to even be on this planet.

363

: 00:18:57

So if I was gonna be here, I needed

to find something that was meaningful,

364

: 00:19:01

that was in line with who I am.

365

: 00:19:03

And make a living at it.

366

: 00:19:05

Okay.

367

: 00:19:05

That's no small order.

368

: 00:19:07

I got my master's degree when I was 40

and worked my way through school, right.

369

: 00:19:10

And the goal has always been to

how do I get paid to be myself?

370

: 00:19:14

And I look around at the privileged,

beautiful life that I have today.

371

: 00:19:19

And I can honestly say I

get paid to be myself now.

372

: 00:19:22

And it took a minute, you

know, I'm like 53 now.

373

: 00:19:26

Like it took me a minute

to get here and I'm here.

374

: 00:19:29

And I am so grateful.

375

: 00:19:31

Like people used to tell me

before, they're like, wait till

376

: 00:19:33

you're grateful for all of it.

377

: 00:19:34

I'm like, all of it?

378

: 00:19:35

I am absolutely grateful for all of it.

379

: 00:19:38

It's like, oh, and I had

that inkling early on.

380

: 00:19:41

Like if I'm going to do something

and spend all my time doing that,

381

: 00:19:44

or a lot of my time, how much time

we spend at work earning income to

382

: 00:19:48

exist in this world, I gotta like it.

383

: 00:19:51

I gotta just be able to be me.

384

: 00:19:53

And that's been a really driving force

in all of it and for people who may

385

: 00:19:57

not be there yet like it is totally

possible to get paid to be yourself.

386

: 00:20:03

Natasha Moharter: I really think

that that's actually a huge piece

387

: 00:20:06

of hope that I see in finding

income outside of the therapy realm.

388

: 00:20:10

I have other interests or I have

other dreams or I have other expertise

389

: 00:20:14

and how can I share that as well?

390

: 00:20:16

And training for a lot of people,

can be kind of a natural avenue.

391

: 00:20:20

A lot of us are natural learners and a

lot of us like to share that knowledge.

392

: 00:20:24

And it can be so important to say, I need

to be me, I need to be representative

393

: 00:20:28

of who I am, my story, my history,

what I bring to the table, right?

394

: 00:20:32

And I don't have to be somebody else.

395

: 00:20:34

I heard this thing and it sticks

with me and it says, we don't have

396

: 00:20:37

to be experts to be contributors.

397

: 00:20:39

It can take some of the pressure

off of us to say, you have to

398

: 00:20:42

know everything and be infallible.

399

: 00:20:44

Thanks, anxiety, for

wanting me to do a good job.

400

: 00:20:46

And I'm going to show up and

I might mess up and I might

401

: 00:20:50

say things that sound weird.

402

: 00:20:51

Or I might be my awkward self

and somebody might not like that.

403

: 00:20:54

And I'm going to show up anyways

because there are going to be people

404

: 00:20:57

that this is going to resonate with.

405

: 00:20:59

Vanya Garabedian: I do experiences

where people think somehow

406

: 00:21:01

I'm special, I'm different.

407

: 00:21:02

And I don't see it that way.

408

: 00:21:04

I was not supposed to

graduate from high school.

409

: 00:21:07

I wasn't raised with awareness that I had

intelligence or capability of learning.

410

: 00:21:11

I was raised with what was reflected

back to me as being someone who

411

: 00:21:15

wasn't intelligent, someone who

isn't able to do big things.

412

: 00:21:19

I wasn't raised to go to college.

413

: 00:21:21

I am a person in long term recovery

from addiction and trauma, like

414

: 00:21:25

none of this has been easy.

415

: 00:21:29

This is like decades, decades of work

on self and willingness to be really

416

: 00:21:36

good at being uncomfortable, which I

think has to do with my history and

417

: 00:21:40

willingness to do the hard thing and

there's been a lot of privilege and

418

: 00:21:46

support, which comes back to that bridge,

and also adversity, which I believe

419

: 00:21:51

really puts me in this unique position.

420

: 00:21:53

I guess I just share that to bring it down

a notch when people, it's really easy to

421

: 00:21:57

look at someone and say, oh yeah, but.

422

: 00:22:02

And I used to do that.

423

: 00:22:03

And the realization that no man,

like we're all just figuring it out

424

: 00:22:09

as we go was really helpful for me.

425

: 00:22:12

It's hard.

426

: 00:22:14

I know I got the idea that life

wasn't supposed to be this hard, and

427

: 00:22:17

I'm not sure where I got it because

that hasn't been my experience.

428

: 00:22:20

I think that's an important

thing to kind of call out too.

429

: 00:22:23

Like, if I can do it, anyone can.

430

: 00:22:26

And whatever that do it is,

whatever that is for you.

431

: 00:22:30

It's going to be different for everyone.

432

: 00:22:32

Natasha Moharter: I think about

ADHD and women just recently being

433

: 00:22:36

recognized and some of how that

might influence internalized ableism.

434

: 00:22:41

And sometimes I think

about, overnight successes.

435

: 00:22:43

Because we're like, what happened?

436

: 00:22:44

You know, the universe must have gotten

together and like pushed them forward.

437

: 00:22:49

We don't see, that's the tip of the

iceberg, we don't see all the hard work.

438

: 00:22:53

Vanya Garabedian: I don't know

any overnight successes, even the

439

: 00:22:55

people that we're pretty sure are.

440

: 00:22:56

There's a lot of work that

isn't seen and it's so worth it.

441

: 00:23:01

And I guess I was fortunate cause

I was diagnosed at a young age.

442

: 00:23:04

Like when I was 12, I

was in middle school.

443

: 00:23:07

And they didn't really know what to do

with me, so I would get put back and forth

444

: 00:23:10

between gifted and special ed classes.

445

: 00:23:13

And, just feeling kind of like

an alien most of my life, which

446

: 00:23:16

is also a common human trait,

is to not feel like you belong.

447

: 00:23:20

It was helpful in some ways

and not helpful in other ways.

448

: 00:23:25

And for me personally, it created

a lot of shame because it wasn't

449

: 00:23:28

talked a lot about back in the day.

450

: 00:23:30

It wasn't out there like it is today.

451

: 00:23:32

Like, and I'm talking about the

seventies and eighties, like when

452

: 00:23:34

people were like, they're just like.

453

: 00:23:37

Special ed kid or something, you know,

there wasn't any sort of template

454

: 00:23:42

or role model to be like, Hey,

actually you have all these gifts.

455

: 00:23:45

Though my mom was amazing and recognizing

my artistic talents at a young age.

456

: 00:23:49

And she used to like really push me

in that direction to be an artist.

457

: 00:23:53

I have a strong creative streak

and I'm really grateful for her.

458

: 00:23:57

Like she used to tell people all the

time, Oh, this is my flower child.

459

: 00:24:00

She was just born in the wrong era

because I was so just different.

460

: 00:24:05

Like, you know, just

different from everyone.

461

: 00:24:07

I used to think I was born too late.

462

: 00:24:09

Now, as I'm seeing these

younger generations that are

463

: 00:24:12

phenomenal and amazing, I'm

like, maybe I was born too early.

464

: 00:24:15

Being different was not, it

wasn't helpful in any way.

465

: 00:24:21

It was really challenging.

466

: 00:24:23

Natasha Moharter: It brings

me to our next question.

467

: 00:24:26

You are an advocate for addressing

unintended harm within our care systems.

468

: 00:24:31

Can you share with us your

perspective on how focusing on our

469

: 00:24:34

own development can enhance the

quality of care we provide while

470

: 00:24:37

reducing burnout and vicarious trauma.

471

: 00:24:40

Vanya Garabedian: That's a big topic.

472

: 00:24:43

So I mean, this is debatable and people

argue with me about this, I don't think

473

: 00:24:47

there are any inherently bad people.

474

: 00:24:52

I don't believe that.

475

: 00:24:53

I think I've worked with

three sociopaths in my career.

476

: 00:24:56

It's not as common as people think.

477

: 00:24:58

And these people need some

special containers and handling.

478

: 00:25:04

Most people are not bad.

479

: 00:25:08

I just don't, I don't believe that.

480

: 00:25:10

So if I am walking around with

this idea that there are, then I

481

: 00:25:17

am going to act from that belief.

482

: 00:25:19

Like, like there's deeper things

that affect and influence who we

483

: 00:25:24

are and how we show up in the world.

484

: 00:25:25

And it's implicit.

485

: 00:25:27

If I am not willing, humble enough, or

however you want to word it, to take

486

: 00:25:34

a look at that, like the unpack your

knapsack thing, then I'm going to do

487

: 00:25:37

unintended harm all over the place.

488

: 00:25:39

Not on purpose and not because

I'm mean and not because I'm

489

: 00:25:41

evil, because I just don't know.

490

: 00:25:42

And I haven't taken the opportunity.

491

: 00:25:44

How many people come from this I really

want to help perspective without having an

492

: 00:25:52

opportunity to take a look at themselves,

heal their own wounds, get the care and

493

: 00:25:57

concern that they want to provide others.

494

: 00:25:59

How do you find that for yourself?

495

: 00:26:01

So you can actually show up and

walk alongside with someone versus

496

: 00:26:04

this hero thing that we can get

caught up in or somehow I don't,

497

: 00:26:08

I don't believe in experts.

498

: 00:26:10

I think we can have really extensive

knowledge in different areas.

499

: 00:26:14

I'll take that.

500

: 00:26:15

Like if we walk around in this idea,

especially in our system, Oh my

501

: 00:26:19

God, where what is admired, what is

celebrated are experts and people

502

: 00:26:25

who get to be seen as better than and

saviors and all of this kind of stuff.

503

: 00:26:32

I don't buy it.

504

: 00:26:33

And I see so much

unintended harm happening.

505

: 00:26:35

I'm not saying people don't know a lot

about their fields and that's really

506

: 00:26:39

important and education, whatever that

looks like, whether it's the traditional

507

: 00:26:43

or the life experience or whatever, all of

that is important and creates knowledge.

508

: 00:26:48

There's a saying like

hurt people, hurt people.

509

: 00:26:51

And I did this for a while.

510

: 00:26:53

I don't have any shame around it.

511

: 00:26:54

I was an IV drug user.

512

: 00:26:55

I used heroin and cocaine, until

I was 25 and I did unintended

513

: 00:27:01

harm, whether I meant to or not.

514

: 00:27:04

And when I got clean, when I had

the privilege of being able to be

515

: 00:27:07

supported to even find recovery,

which is a privilege for somebody to

516

: 00:27:10

even get to see us is a privilege.

517

: 00:27:13

For someone to get to

walk through the door.

518

: 00:27:14

Even in the early years, I was so angry

and I was so depressed and I was just,

519

: 00:27:20

so disappointed that I was still alive.

520

: 00:27:22

I don't mean to be dramatic, but I

didn't want to be on this planet.

521

: 00:27:27

And I really, I thought for a long

time that I was only harming myself

522

: 00:27:31

in my use and in my early recovery.

523

: 00:27:34

And that's not true.

524

: 00:27:36

Like it's, it's just not true.

525

: 00:27:37

I didn't learn that to later

through work that I've done.

526

: 00:27:41

And if I hadn't done that work, I might

still be an angry, resentful person.

527

: 00:27:47

And then you look at like the, when

people talk about wokeness and being

528

: 00:27:51

politically correct and all of that

kind of stuff, how do we normalize and

529

: 00:27:56

create spaces where there's opportunity

to just see people for who they are,

530

: 00:28:01

allow them to tell me who they are.

531

: 00:28:03

No one's going to do it perfectly.

532

: 00:28:05

We're going to make mistakes.

533

: 00:28:06

It's not about the missteps.

534

: 00:28:07

It's about recognizing when you

have a misstep so you can walk

535

: 00:28:11

through it and do it differently.

536

: 00:28:13

Not being afraid to take risks, because

I see that frequently with the white

537

: 00:28:17

people in my life and colleagues.

538

: 00:28:20

The fear of saying the wrong

thing keeps them quiet.

539

: 00:28:24

So then they do say something

offensive without realizing it.

540

: 00:28:27

Now it's going to happen.

541

: 00:28:29

How do I support myself and learning

how to navigate it to not just

542

: 00:28:33

decrease my suffering and hopefully not

contribute to the suffering of others.

543

: 00:28:38

Natasha Moharter: One of the things

that is really standing out is your

544

: 00:28:40

willingness to be vulnerable and open to

new information while also having done the

545

: 00:28:46

work to know what's important to you, to

know your boundaries to know, you know,

546

: 00:28:50

hey, I want to show up in certain ways to

be like we're talking about that bridge.

547

: 00:28:56

And that requires me to not

just immediately, push back on

548

: 00:29:00

people, or it requires me to kind

of show up in a different way.

549

: 00:29:04

Vanya Garabedian: And

I want to be clear too.

550

: 00:29:05

The people in the streets are important.

551

: 00:29:07

The people who are calling out injustice,

All of these roles are important and

552

: 00:29:12

necessary, and this is what I see as mine.

553

: 00:29:15

I can't do it all.

554

: 00:29:16

What I can do is what I feel passionate

about, what I feel like I'm effective at,

555

: 00:29:21

and I can put my little brick in the wall.

556

: 00:29:23

I have a lot of friends who are

very active in different social

557

: 00:29:28

justice scenes and hit the

streets and sometimes I do too.

558

: 00:29:32

And, some will be like, you know,

like, No, I'm not going to tolerate it.

559

: 00:29:37

And for them, their different

identities put them in a much

560

: 00:29:40

more vulnerable position than me.

561

: 00:29:42

So it's also recognizing where

do I sit with my privilege?

562

: 00:29:47

So, I'm not getting mad at my friend.

563

: 00:29:52

I'm actually in an alignment with them

and supporting them and understanding

564

: 00:29:55

they're in a different world than I am.

565

: 00:29:57

Like my friends who are part of the

LGBTQI community, my friends who

566

: 00:30:01

are darker skinned than me, they're

having a different experience.

567

: 00:30:04

And by no means, am I saying, put yourself

out there in these ways, I'm saying,

568

: 00:30:10

what do you have to do first to keep

yourself safe and participate in the way,

569

: 00:30:14

I like to say this a lot too, like with

my white friends, that's sustainable.

570

: 00:30:18

So you don't quit, slow

down without stopping.

571

: 00:30:21

Which again comes to like, my own

identity and my own privilege.

572

: 00:30:25

I don't want my, one of my trans

friends to go out there and make a

573

: 00:30:29

big statement unless they want to and

they feel support or whatever they get

574

: 00:30:34

to do whatever, what they want to do.

575

: 00:30:36

I know I can do that and not fear

that I'm going to be attacked

576

: 00:30:41

for being a trans person.

577

: 00:30:42

Natasha Moharter: We can have the

same sort of goals and that might look

578

: 00:30:45

different in how we actually do that.

579

: 00:30:48

So we discovered that we had similar

passions for trainings and getting

580

: 00:30:51

the word out about these opportunities

to facilitate provider growth.

581

: 00:30:55

While the Facebook group I facilitate

focuses more nationally, you've

582

: 00:30:58

created a growing community of

local professionals in New Mexico.

583

: 00:31:03

Can you share a little bit about how

that community came to be and what it's

584

: 00:31:06

like focusing on a local population?

585

: 00:31:09

Vanya Garabedian: Yeah, so it's funny

because for me, it came down to me

586

: 00:31:13

and another colleague kind of being

a little overwhelmed and frustrated

587

: 00:31:18

with the local practice page.

588

: 00:31:20

The frustration was how do we sort through

all the noise, cause there's so much

589

: 00:31:26

participation there to find a workshop.

590

: 00:31:29

I'm really passionate about

like support local when you can.

591

: 00:31:32

Me and a colleague were talking,

were like, ah, so like, how do we

592

: 00:31:35

create a space that is just for CEUs,

for New Mexicans, by new Mexicans?

593

: 00:31:43

So it's a lot simpler to be able

to find what you're looking for if

594

: 00:31:47

you want to support local versus

one of the big companies out there.

595

: 00:31:53

New Mexico is a very unique state.

596

: 00:31:57

So a workshop that works on the

east coast or even in Texas or on

597

: 00:32:02

the West Coast, may not work here.

598

: 00:32:04

So being considerate and conscientious

of that and taking into account

599

: 00:32:09

all the different indigenous

people who live here and all the

600

: 00:32:12

different populations and identities.

601

: 00:32:15

It's a very LGBTQIA plus friendly state.

602

: 00:32:19

So I guess that's where it birthed

out of frustration, like, which is

603

: 00:32:24

kind of something that I do too.

604

: 00:32:25

I create the things that I wish I

had is a big part of it as well.

605

: 00:32:30

I wanted a place to be able to connect

with local providers doing CEUs.

606

: 00:32:34

I wanted a place to be able

to let people know about mine.

607

: 00:32:38

So that's really where it was birthed.

608

: 00:32:41

Natasha Moharter: You had mentioned

earlier that you like when

609

: 00:32:43

things make sense to you, right?

610

: 00:32:44

And even if you have to figure

out different avenues to make it

611

: 00:32:47

work, you are willing to do it.

612

: 00:32:49

And that group is growing.

613

: 00:32:50

That group really seems like it's a

very valuable resource in the community.

614

: 00:32:55

And for providers who actually

might also want to start a local CEU

615

: 00:33:00

focused virtual community, do you

have any suggestions on how to do

616

: 00:33:04

that or how to even go about starting?

617

: 00:33:07

Vanya Garabedian: Well, I was

really fortunate that the person

618

: 00:33:10

that was also frustrated, Antonia

Montoya, she is a local amazing

619

: 00:33:14

therapist here, knew how to do that.

620

: 00:33:17

So to be honest, I was

like, how do I do this?

621

: 00:33:20

And she's like, I've done this.

622

: 00:33:21

I know how to do this.

623

: 00:33:22

So then we paired up and I

learned with her while doing it.

624

: 00:33:29

So I guess I would recommend finding

somebody, if you don't know how, find

625

: 00:33:32

somebody who does, that's something else

that, is a skill that I have, like, I, if

626

: 00:33:37

I don't know how to do it, I go find the

person that's doing what I want to do.

627

: 00:33:41

And then I ask them how they did it.

628

: 00:33:43

Natasha Moharter: And one of the

things that I think is really neat

629

: 00:33:45

about some of the virtual spaces is

you can have multiple people support.

630

: 00:33:48

So whether that's through moderation,

through different admin roles, right?

631

: 00:33:52

And so it doesn't only have to be on you

if that's not your strength or your forte,

632

: 00:33:57

but your interest can very much fuel that.

633

: 00:34:00

Vanya Garabedian: Yeah.

634

: 00:34:01

And so it's, it's restricted.

635

: 00:34:03

We do our best to restrict it to

people who live in New Mexico.

636

: 00:34:06

We don't allow groups in there.

637

: 00:34:08

So we're staying away from the big

CEU group providers, national people.

638

: 00:34:14

And if you, if somebody is watching this

and you live in New Mexico and you want

639

: 00:34:18

to find CEUs that are by New Mexicans for

New Mexicans, or you want to get yours

640

: 00:34:23

out there, it's called CEUs New Mexico

- Lifelong Learners in Mental and Behavioral

641

: 00:34:27

Health on Facebook so please join us.

642

: 00:34:31

Natasha Moharter: You are a CEU

provider approved at the state

643

: 00:34:33

level by the New Mexico Counseling

and Therapy Practice Board.

644

: 00:34:37

Can you share a little bit about

what that process was like getting

645

: 00:34:40

approved at the state level and any

pros or cons that you've seen to

646

: 00:34:43

being approved at the state level?

647

: 00:34:46

Vanya Garabedian: I mean, the cons right

away is my CEUs that I provide may not be

648

: 00:34:50

accepted by boards outside of New Mexico.

649

: 00:34:53

I know some, like the New Mexico

board will accept CEUs from anything

650

: 00:34:58

that is accredited by a board.

651

: 00:35:01

So I don't know if there are

other States that do that.

652

: 00:35:03

So that's a con.

653

: 00:35:05

The pro is it was a lot less cumbersome

and less expensive, and it was

654

: 00:35:11

more accessible than the national

organizations, which I get frustrated

655

: 00:35:16

with because I'm not a fan of barriers.

656

: 00:35:19

And so, I am a social worker.

657

: 00:35:22

Social justice is my passion.

658

: 00:35:24

If anyone from the National Association

of Social Workers is listening, is

659

: 00:35:28

there a way to make the accessibility

to become a provider more accessible

660

: 00:35:35

for those of us that are just single

practice people, that don't necessarily

661

: 00:35:41

have the money and the resources to

do the things that they're requesting?

662

: 00:35:47

I haven't looked at it

lately, so maybe it's changed.

663

: 00:35:49

The last time I looked at

it, it was really expensive

664

: 00:35:51

and I haven't counted it out.

665

: 00:35:53

I just haven't figured out a way to do it.

666

: 00:35:55

And what I see happen is

these large corporations have

667

: 00:35:59

the resources to do that.

668

: 00:36:01

But the small, local, whether it's local

in where you are or anywhere else, really

669

: 00:36:08

struggle with getting that, accreditation.

670

: 00:36:10

So is there a way to ensure

quality, because I imagine

671

: 00:36:16

that's a large part of it, right?

672

: 00:36:18

While also creating bridges for

the small provider to also be

673

: 00:36:24

able to get that accreditation.

674

: 00:36:28

I haven't given up.

675

: 00:36:29

I just haven't found the

time yet to navigate it.

676

: 00:36:33

Being a small business, there

isn't a lot of extra income to

677

: 00:36:38

pay for people to do it for me.

678

: 00:36:40

So, or to pay the fees that

it was the last time I looked.

679

: 00:36:44

Which really makes me scratch my

head because social work is all

680

: 00:36:48

about social justice and breaking

down barriers and accessibility.

681

: 00:36:52

And here's the national board and

there's some really challenging barriers

682

: 00:36:56

and the accessibility isn't easy.

683

: 00:36:59

And I understand we're only seeing the

tip of their iceberg, so I just know

684

: 00:37:02

there's more to it that I don't know,

and I, I'm just a big believer in being

685

: 00:37:06

somebody who focuses on the solution.

686

: 00:37:09

I'm not saying I have the answer.

687

: 00:37:11

I'm just saying there's not

just one way to do things.

688

: 00:37:14

Cause I've had requests from, lawyers

and nurses and doctors who want to

689

: 00:37:19

do the trainings that I provide.

690

: 00:37:22

And because my CEUs aren't

accepted by their board.

691

: 00:37:27

They go elsewhere.

692

: 00:37:28

So I don't know, I don't know the

solution, but I'm open to finding it.

693

: 00:37:33

Like the New Mexico Counseling and

Therapy Practice Board is amazing.

694

: 00:37:38

It's as if they want to

support you in providing CEUs.

695

: 00:37:42

Like the fee is reasonable,

the process is reasonable.

696

: 00:37:46

And my, I want to support local as well.

697

: 00:37:49

So it's a both and I'm really

passionate about our dollars go further

698

: 00:37:54

when we are focused in our state

and being a small local business.

699

: 00:37:58

I want to support that as well.

700

: 00:38:01

Natasha Moharter: So you've mentioned

that you prefer in person trainings.

701

: 00:38:05

What about this format do you like most

and what advice would you give to a CEU

702

: 00:38:09

provider wanting to provide in person

trainings as opposed to a virtual setup?

703

: 00:38:14

Vanya Garabedian: For me, I'm a big

believer in the co regulation and the

704

: 00:38:20

communication of our nervous systems.

705

: 00:38:22

So I believe in the value of people

being in the same room and the

706

: 00:38:28

container that can be created in a

different way when we're in person.

707

: 00:38:35

Our nervous systems are all communicating,

we're co regulating, we're creating

708

: 00:38:40

more personal space where more people

take risks with their questions

709

: 00:38:46

and what they're willing to do.

710

: 00:38:48

Of course, a lot of that has

to do with how it's, you know,

711

: 00:38:50

how the container is created.

712

: 00:38:52

And honestly, I mean, that's

what I've always loved.

713

: 00:38:55

I did not know anything about Zoom.

714

: 00:38:58

I think maybe like a lot of

people pre COVID and when COVID

715

: 00:39:01

happened, I was like, I think this

will be about like nine months.

716

: 00:39:06

I was changing my practice.

717

: 00:39:07

I was in private practice.

718

: 00:39:09

I was moving everything into online.

719

: 00:39:11

I was, like a lot of

us, all hands on deck.

720

: 00:39:14

The number of people that I

was seeing were off the charts.

721

: 00:39:18

I don't recommend it.

722

: 00:39:20

The amount of emotional and

physical labor that my practice

723

: 00:39:25

took increased exponentially.

724

: 00:39:28

So there was a lack of time.

725

: 00:39:29

I'm seeing people online.

726

: 00:39:31

And I thought it wasn't going

to be as long as it was.

727

: 00:39:35

So now what's interesting is this past

year, I did my first online workshop.

728

: 00:39:42

And I've been contracted with a couple of

places to do online workshops for them.

729

: 00:39:49

And I also do therapy online

and I've done trainings online.

730

: 00:39:52

So, now I've had this experience of like,

Oh, we can still create a container.

731

: 00:39:57

It's different.

732

: 00:39:58

I'm not going to lie.

733

: 00:39:59

It is different.

734

: 00:40:00

And I can also reach more people.

735

: 00:40:02

So I've got a lot of learning to

do a lot of catching up to do.

736

: 00:40:06

I got contracted with

another great local business.

737

: 00:40:09

If I can give a shout out, Envive, it's

two women own it and they really focus

738

: 00:40:15

on helping local, small business owners

develop their businesses and they support

739

: 00:40:20

the local community, and addiction and

recovery community in so many ways.

740

: 00:40:24

So they're amazing.

741

: 00:40:26

They contracted me to

do a workshop with them.

742

: 00:40:28

And they had this team of people

that is amazing that supported it.

743

: 00:40:34

So I just got to show up and do my thing.

744

: 00:40:38

And that was like, just such a

beautiful, different experience

745

: 00:40:41

than when I just do them on my own.

746

: 00:40:43

I still prefer in person.

747

: 00:40:45

And I also like, like, I have

food, I have coffee, I have tea.

748

: 00:40:49

Like, I like to be able to create

this supportive environment

749

: 00:40:52

where I do what I wish I had.

750

: 00:40:54

So whenever you go to a workshop and it's

like, really, there's not even water.

751

: 00:40:57

Like what?

752

: 00:40:58

So I provide all these things that

I couldn't if they were at home.

753

: 00:41:02

I like to be hospitable,

I guess is maybe the term.

754

: 00:41:05

Natasha Moharter: Think it's really

neat that you keep coming back to

755

: 00:41:08

that, that you're creating the things

that you wish that you had or that

756

: 00:41:11

you weren't able to experience.

757

: 00:41:13

Coming back to your point of community,

and being in relationship and being

758

: 00:41:17

able to support and collaborate and

do really cool things because of it.

759

: 00:41:21

Vanya Garabedian: Yeah, I'm huge on

community and that's another thing

760

: 00:41:23

where it's like I need community, so

I do what I can to create community.

761

: 00:41:29

Natasha Moharter: Along with your

CEU trainings, you've created

762

: 00:41:32

an excellent resource called

the Ethical Provider Collective.

763

: 00:41:36

It's a monthly drop in Zoom session

aimed at reducing burnout, addressing

764

: 00:41:40

ethical dilemmas, and fostering

meaningful connection among fellow

765

: 00:41:45

providers with a focus on ethics,

supervision, and cultural humility.

766

: 00:41:49

It's free to attend, but you also

offer one CEU per meeting, at a

767

: 00:41:53

rate of $25 plus state tax, if

anybody is interested in that.

768

: 00:41:57

Can you share a little bit more about

the Ethical Provider Collective with us?

769

: 00:42:02

Vanya Garabedian: Yeah, absolutely.

770

: 00:42:03

Thank you for asking about it.

771

: 00:42:05

So what it was birthed out of

was people reaching out to me

772

: 00:42:09

for supervision and consultation.

773

: 00:42:12

And I just don't have the time to

meet with everybody that was asking.

774

: 00:42:16

And also seeing providers struggling

with being able to have access to

775

: 00:42:22

groups and communities where they

could get some extra support and

776

: 00:42:26

supervision that was affordable, because

it can cost money if you don't have

777

: 00:42:30

supervision at your place of employment.

778

: 00:42:33

It serves so many purposes.

779

: 00:42:34

So with my own workshops oftentimes

people have follow up questions or

780

: 00:42:38

they want to talk about something more.

781

: 00:42:40

So now, if that's the case, you can

drop in once a month and we can talk

782

: 00:42:46

about whatever follow up questions

that you have from one of my workshops.

783

: 00:42:50

If you haven't been to my workshops,

you can come in and get support and

784

: 00:42:55

get to know other providers as well.

785

: 00:42:57

And I guess my belief that it decreases

burnout is the more supported we

786

: 00:43:01

are in the community, the less alone

we feel, the less we're burnt out

787

: 00:43:07

and just feel so isolated, which

it can really feel that way, even

788

: 00:43:10

particularly in private practice.

789

: 00:43:12

So that's what brought it about was

my desire to be able to be accessible

790

: 00:43:19

to people who have questions after

my workshops, accessible supervision

791

: 00:43:24

for people who might not even

know me to be able to drop in and

792

: 00:43:27

also benefit from a community.

793

: 00:43:30

Natasha Moharter: You're creating

different parts of your sales funnel.

794

: 00:43:33

So you're allowing people to get to know

you a little bit better and potentially

795

: 00:43:37

take a training from you afterward.

796

: 00:43:39

When women have access to resource and

money and finance, we really do tend

797

: 00:43:44

to invest it back in our communities.

798

: 00:43:46

And we can vote with our dollars.

799

: 00:43:48

This is one of the reasons that I see a

lot of clinicians wanting to provide CEUs.

800

: 00:43:52

And yet we're in a field that we, you

know, we don't want to feel salesy,

801

: 00:43:55

or we don't want to feel pushy and,

yet, being seen and having a pay me

802

: 00:43:59

now button can be really important to

continuing our work, to reducing burnout.

803

: 00:44:05

So it's just neat to kind of see that

from the business side, what you've

804

: 00:44:08

naturally created and you've brought

into this, that is working for you.

805

: 00:44:11

Vanya Garabedian: Yeah.

806

: 00:44:11

Thank you.

807

: 00:44:12

And I can't say that isn't

part of the hope, right?

808

: 00:44:16

That people come, they meet me, they want

to take my workshops and they sign up.

809

: 00:44:19

That would be excellent.

810

: 00:44:22

And it's so challenging.

811

: 00:44:25

This is one of my struggles that I've

been working on too, is, is that business

812

: 00:44:30

side, the advertising, the charging,

like my husband jokes with me and he's

813

: 00:44:36

like, you give away too much for free.

814

: 00:44:38

And it's challenging for

me to find that balance.

815

: 00:44:43

Because my inclination is if I can

do it, I'm just going to do it.

816

: 00:44:46

And if something comes out of it, great.

817

: 00:44:48

If nothing comes out of it, okay.

818

: 00:44:50

And I hope something comes out of it.

819

: 00:44:51

I'm not immune from the capitalistic

system that I live in and needing to

820

: 00:44:55

make a living and keep all this going.

821

: 00:44:57

And it's, it's a really

challenging point for me.

822

: 00:45:00

I'm experimenting with this

social justice model the green

823

: 00:45:04

bottle method and how I charge.

824

: 00:45:08

So there's three different categories

that you get to choose which one you

825

: 00:45:11

fall into for my actual workshops.

826

: 00:45:14

Trying to find ways that I feel

good about in line with my values

827

: 00:45:19

and my belief in access and make

money is a learning curve for me.

828

: 00:45:25

These are the things that I'm kind

of working on is like using a social

829

: 00:45:28

justice model for a sliding scale,

not giving away all the seats, which

830

: 00:45:34

is something that I've done before.

831

: 00:45:36

Finding those balances is challenging.

832

: 00:45:38

And I was just actually thinking about

this this morning when I was getting

833

: 00:45:41

ready to come to work that like I've

got, I give spots away in my workshop.

834

: 00:45:45

So I will give myself the boundary of only

having one scholarship spot for the in

835

: 00:45:51

person ones and two for the ones online.

836

: 00:45:54

Let's see if I can

stick with it this year.

837

: 00:45:58

Natasha Moharter: I so appreciate

your authenticity and your genuineness

838

: 00:46:00

and your realness with that.

839

: 00:46:02

Vanya Garabedian: Absolutely.

840

: 00:46:02

Right.

841

: 00:46:03

And I'm getting more effective at it.

842

: 00:46:04

Like I'm more willing to ask for

more when I see how long it takes

843

: 00:46:08

me to create a workshop and, that's

something people should know.

844

: 00:46:11

It's like the amount of time and energy

that goes on the backend to produce

845

: 00:46:16

like a three hour or one day or two day.

846

: 00:46:19

It takes a minute to make a profit.

847

: 00:46:21

Right.

848

: 00:46:22

So, I think it's like a word of

caution to people who want to do this.

849

: 00:46:26

Just know that there's

a lot of front end work.

850

: 00:46:28

And, the funding piece is

something that I struggle with.

851

: 00:46:32

Cause again, I see these larger Practices

able to have the resources and time to put

852

: 00:46:39

into getting funding that I don't have.

853

: 00:46:43

I haven't figured out how

to also be able to do that.

854

: 00:46:47

Or when I talk to different funding

sources in New Mexico they're going

855

: 00:46:51

with this person or these people or this

agency that has well known and really

856

: 00:46:56

popular and everybody knows who they are.

857

: 00:46:58

Like, I totally get it and

how I'm learning, how do I

858

: 00:47:02

also get to go in that way.

859

: 00:47:05

And one of the beautiful things about it

is when I'm seeing these agencies that

860

: 00:47:09

get the funding, I know them like they

started as one or two people businesses.

861

: 00:47:16

So that tells me if they figure

this out, there is a way.

862

: 00:47:21

I just haven't figured out my way yet.

863

: 00:47:24

So that's hopeful.

864

: 00:47:25

Natasha Moharter: The mission and

the values that surround the creation

865

: 00:47:28

of this podcast was let's spotlight

some of the people that are doing

866

: 00:47:31

incredible work that maybe we are

kind of one, two person businesses.

867

: 00:47:36

But we have goals.

868

: 00:47:37

We're on our way somewhere.

869

: 00:47:38

So many of us clinicians are

trying to figure out, how do we

870

: 00:47:42

add additional income streams?

871

: 00:47:43

What does it look like for us to market?

872

: 00:47:46

How do we learn the

business aspect of this?

873

: 00:47:48

Because that is very different

than providing therapy.

874

: 00:47:50

Vanya Garabedian: When I look back at the

first workshops I created, like at the

875

: 00:47:54

time I was like, Oh, this is pretty good.

876

: 00:47:57

And now I'm like, Ooh, like, so

there's a natural process that I have

877

: 00:48:03

learned and become more effective

and skillful at while doing it.

878

: 00:48:08

So it's like not waiting until

I have it figured out to do it.

879

: 00:48:12

It's like do it and I'll

figure it out as I go.

880

: 00:48:15

And I think that's part of the

privilege of ADD is like, I jump and

881

: 00:48:20

I land somewhere and I figure it out.

882

: 00:48:23

Doesn't always work out.

883

: 00:48:24

What does happen is I learn more skills

and I keep progressing and now when I

884

: 00:48:29

look at a workshop that I present today

versus one that I did like seven or eight

885

: 00:48:32

years ago, it's like, okay, I can see

how far and how and like my learning.

886

: 00:48:39

I think that's important to like if we

wait until we get it right or perfectly,

887

: 00:48:42

we're not going to get anything done.

888

: 00:48:43

Natasha Moharter: You don't have to get

it right, you just have to get it going.

889

: 00:48:47

Vanya Garabedian: Yes, the change

and growth happens in the 1%.

890

: 00:48:51

It's not this zero to a

hundred that, sometimes we

891

: 00:48:54

mistake it for or people want.

892

: 00:48:56

It's just 1% of change a day, and

that comes from Atomic Habits.

893

: 00:49:00

Just to put that out

there, that's a great book.

894

: 00:49:02

But like he talks about that 1% just

make a 1% change in the day and that's

895

: 00:49:09

going to change your entire trajectory.

896

: 00:49:12

And it's scary and it's

hard and it's not easy.

897

: 00:49:16

So just know that if it's scary,

hard and not easy, it probably

898

: 00:49:19

means you're doing it right.

899

: 00:49:21

Natasha Moharter: In OCD and anxiety

treatment, so much of what I work with my

900

: 00:49:24

clients on is embracing the uncertainty.

901

: 00:49:27

We don't know how it will happen.

902

: 00:49:28

And yet if it's in alignment with our

values and it's something that we want

903

: 00:49:32

to pursue, we're gonna do it scared,

and that might not be our favorite.

904

: 00:49:36

We might have to accept that we feel

really icky when we're doing this.

905

: 00:49:40

And yet we can still push forward

and it can get easier over time.

906

: 00:49:44

Vanya Garabedian: Yeah that was the other

thing I wanted to mention, the values.

907

: 00:49:46

It's like suffering comes from

living against our values.

908

: 00:49:51

So if somebody's watching this or

listening to this and you're not

909

: 00:49:55

maybe certain what your values are,

like there are places to participate

910

: 00:49:59

in figuring that out for yourself.

911

: 00:50:01

Like when I was putting a needle in

my arm, that was going against all

912

: 00:50:04

my values and my suffering was great.

913

: 00:50:06

So living in accordance to our values

makes the hard things a little bit

914

: 00:50:10

more like you're willing to do it.

915

: 00:50:12

And our suffering decreases.

916

: 00:50:14

Can I tolerate the pain of the moment,

the discomfort of the moment in

917

: 00:50:18

exchange for a decrease in my suffering?

918

: 00:50:20

Or am I going to not do whatever

I have to do to avoid that pain

919

: 00:50:26

and it increases my suffering?

920

: 00:50:28

And it's a skill.

921

: 00:50:29

It's a skill like anything else.

922

: 00:50:30

So if people don't know how

to do it, there's no shame.

923

: 00:50:33

It's just, you haven't had an opportunity.

924

: 00:50:35

So how do you learn how to tolerate

discomfort is such a huge part of it.

925

: 00:50:41

And Certainty Principle.

926

: 00:50:42

Love it.

927

: 00:50:43

I'm a certified brain spotting therapist.

928

: 00:50:45

I'm really passionate about it.

929

: 00:50:46

And I'm going to be starting

my CIT, which is a different

930

: 00:50:50

process of training in that area.

931

: 00:50:53

And it's all based on the

uncertainty principle.

932

: 00:50:56

Natasha Moharter: Like you said, even

CEU trainings can take some time to

933

: 00:50:59

get through from beginning to the end,

to marketing, to putting it out there.

934

: 00:51:02

And so how do you keep showing up?

935

: 00:51:04

Even when it's scary.

936

: 00:51:06

Vanya Garabedian: Even

when you get a bad review.

937

: 00:51:07

You're not sure you know what you're

doing or it's even successful.

938

: 00:51:12

Are you giving half the

seats away for free?

939

: 00:51:14

Like, it's like, you just,

if it's something that's

940

: 00:51:17

important, you just keep going.

941

: 00:51:20

And if it's not that important, let it

go and go try something else you know?

942

: 00:51:25

Natasha Moharter: And you

bring up a good point.

943

: 00:51:26

We will get bad reviews.

944

: 00:51:28

We will, they're out there statistically.

945

: 00:51:30

They're gonna happen.

946

: 00:51:31

Somebody's not gonna like something.

947

: 00:51:33

And, it's okay, right?

948

: 00:51:35

It does, it hurts.

949

: 00:51:36

It stings a little bit.

950

: 00:51:37

That's where support comes in, community.

951

: 00:51:39

It's funny, my most recent training that I

did, one of the reviews was, the training

952

: 00:51:45

materials don't look as professional.

953

: 00:51:47

I'm like, I've never

gotten this one before.

954

: 00:51:49

So I look back and I'm

like, I can see that.

955

: 00:51:51

I can see where I can improve here.

956

: 00:51:53

Okay.

957

: 00:51:54

And I have a lot of hope because

if you look at Facebook's original

958

: 00:51:59

page that they first created.

959

: 00:52:02

It does not look good.

960

: 00:52:03

It is.

961

: 00:52:04

It's really basic and plain.

962

: 00:52:06

And I'm like, if Facebook

can do it, why not us?

963

: 00:52:09

Thank you very much.

964

: 00:52:11

Vanya Garabedian: Absolutely.

965

: 00:52:11

And look back at one of your first

trainings and it'll give you like

966

: 00:52:14

a little bit of like, Oh, wow.

967

: 00:52:15

Okay.

968

: 00:52:16

I've come a far way.

969

: 00:52:17

Yeah.

970

: 00:52:17

And those reviews are like, I look

at all of them and like, sometimes

971

: 00:52:21

they're really valid points.

972

: 00:52:22

I'm like, Oh, wow.

973

: 00:52:23

Man, thank you.

974

: 00:52:23

I'm going to take this into consideration.

975

: 00:52:25

And sometimes it's, you know, I see

that I'm just not your cup of tea and

976

: 00:52:29

I'm not going to change how I do this.

977

: 00:52:30

Natasha Moharter: That

is so important as well.

978

: 00:52:32

Being able to not just take it at, you

know, because you've said this now I'm

979

: 00:52:37

going to, I have to change everything.

980

: 00:52:39

Because there are going to be

people that just don't agree with

981

: 00:52:41

us, and that's okay, that's okay.

982

: 00:52:44

Not comfortable.

983

: 00:52:45

I don't have to like it, I

can have feelings about it.

984

: 00:52:48

And we can still show up for our

next training, because somebody

985

: 00:52:52

out there needs to hear it.

986

: 00:52:54

Vanya Garabedian: It's like getting

comfortable with the uncomfortability.

987

: 00:52:57

Natasha Moharter: Absolutely.

988

: 00:52:58

And like you said, it's a skill.

989

: 00:52:59

It's such an honor to have you here.

990

: 00:53:01

This is newer for both of

us but here we are doing it.

991

: 00:53:04

Showing up despite the discomfort

and being willing to be seen, so

992

: 00:53:08

that way we can make a bigger impact.

993

: 00:53:10

Vanya Garabedian: And I just want to say

thank you because what an opportunity.

994

: 00:53:14

Hopefully people learn more about

me and see what I'm doing and

995

: 00:53:19

want to like come and hang out

either at the Ethical Provider

996

: 00:53:22

Collective or one of my workshops.

997

: 00:53:24

So I'm really super appreciative.

998

: 00:53:26

Natasha Moharter: So where

can we find you online?

999

: 00:53:29

Vanya Garabedian: So my website

is IntentionalPathCounseling.Com

: 1000

00:53:34,771 --> 00:53:36,891

Natasha Moharter: For those of you

who are interested in learning more

: 1001

00:53:36,911 --> 00:53:41,241

about Vanya, her CEU trainings, and

the Ethical Provider Collective, we

: 1002

00:53:41,241 --> 00:53:45,711

will link in the description below to

all of her resources, to her website.

: 1003

00:53:45,711 --> 00:53:50,371

So again, Vanya, thank you so much

for your time and for being here and

: 1004

00:53:50,381 --> 00:53:55,371

embracing discomfort with me and doing

something new and also being seen.

: 1005

00:53:55,816 --> 00:53:58,226

I hope that this brings

lots of success for you.

: 1006

00:53:58,226 --> 00:53:59,206

Vanya Garabedian: Thank you so much.

: 1007

00:53:59,216 --> 00:54:01,346

What a privilege and honor for me as well.