Affirm Mental Health: A Journey to Accessible CEUs with Shaina Siber-Sanderowitz

Natasha Moharter: 00:00:04

Welcome to the Continuing Education for Mental

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Health Professionals Podcast.

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Today we are hosting another CEU

Provider Spotlight Conversation.

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This is where we learn more

about CEU providers in our

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community and their journeys.

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My name is Natasha Moharter, and I'm a

licensed counselor and OCD specialist.

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I run the Facebook group CE for Mental

Health Professionals, and if you're a

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mental health professional, we'd love

to have you join us in that space.

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I'm so excited to be joined

today by our very special

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guest, Shaina Siber-Sanderowitz.

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She's an integrative therapist and

social worker, and founder of Affirm

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Mental Health, LLC, an accredited CE

provider delivering evidence-based,

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affirming, and accessible education

for mental health professionals.

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Through clinically rich, trauma- informed,

and culturally inclusive trainings, Affirm

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equips therapists with the tools to serve

diverse and marginalized communities.

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Shaina also hosts the Affirming

Minds podcast, engaging with mental

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health experts to offer practical

insights and CE opportunities.

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With 15 years in community mental health

in the Bronx, she has held clinical

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and leadership roles and served as

faculty at Arizona State University and

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Albert Einstein College of Medicine.

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A respected educator and speaker, she

has developed training on structural

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humility, LGBTQ plus affirming care,

and Interpersonal Psychotherapy.

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She's committed to empowering

therapists with knowledge and skills

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to provide exceptional affirming care.

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Shaina, thank you so much for being here.

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It's such an honor to have you here today.

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Shaina Siber-Sanderowitz: Thank

you so much for having me, Natasha.

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It's such a pleasure.

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Natasha Moharter: What inspired you to

start Affirm Mental Health and enter

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the world of continuing education?

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Shaina Siber-Sanderowitz: As you mentioned

I am currently in Arizona, but back

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when I was working at a large hospital

institution in the Bronx, New York,

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the New York State Board of Social Work

suddenly changed its continuing education

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requirements for licensure in 2015.

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Overnight social workers were

required to complete their CEUs

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with a limited amount of approved

providers in those early years.

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So the options were incredibly limited.

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Most were expensive.

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At that time it was really in person only.

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I'm sure there's a few exceptions, but

often the courses required long travel,

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and so for me it wasn't really a question

of taking the courses I wanted, or ones

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that would best serve my clinical needs

or educational needs, it was really

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about what I could afford or what I

could fit into my schedule at the time.

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And at the hospital where I worked, there

were hundreds of social workers, but no

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departmental offerings for CEs for us

there, even though they had a continuing

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education department, they organized

that around the physician's needs,

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which was around CMEs, which we were

not allowed to accept for our continuing

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education accreditation and licensure.

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So it became this ongoing conversation

that the hospital should provide

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CEs for social workers and everyone

seemed to agree, but it was sort of

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like everybody pointing the finger

at somebody else and no one was

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really volunteering to take the lead.

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And one day I thought like,

maybe I could look into this.

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Maybe this is something I can explore.

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And I posed it to a large group of social

workers, like, who's going to do it

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with me, who's going to partner with me?

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And it was sort of crickets.

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So I wound up just saying, you know

what, I'm going to do it alone.

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I'm going to just check it out.

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So I asked my department chair if

he'd cover the application fee if I

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figured out how to get approval and

launch a program, and he said yes.

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So I just essentially took it one step

at a time, and I navigated the approval

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process, and I got the Montefiore

Social Work Academy off the ground.

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Once I had approval, I got some

additional support, and we built out the

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CE programming, and the infrastructure

and the clinical programming, and

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it really was adapted to meet the

needs of the social workers that were

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working at that hospital institution.

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So when I moved to Arizona, I really

had interest in sort of thinking about,

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transferring those skills in CE program

development, because I was still finding

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that many of the CE options that were

available were either too theoretical

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or didn't truly address the complexities

of real world clinical practice, and

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I wanted to create something different

and something that really prioritized

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clinicians that were doing therapy.

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So, I envisioned a membership model where

social workers were blown away by the

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value they were getting for their money.

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Coming from an academic medical

setting, a lot of the educational

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opportunities were centered around

faculty, psychologists, and psychiatrists.

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I wanted to create more robust

programming for master's level

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clinicians such as myself.

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Oftentimes I would go to

professional conferences and they

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would provide CEs for everybody

but the master's levels clinician.

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So I really wanted to have the heart and

the ethos of my program be about the needs

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of licensed masters and clinical social

workers, licensed professional counselors,

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licensed mental health counselors,

licensed marriage and family therapists,

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that's who I saw sort of as like my

people, and, you know, wanting to make

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it affordable, accessible, interesting

for them, you know, and I wanted it to be

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painfully obvious that real clinicians,

therapists, not venture capitalists, not

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out of touch academics, were at the helm

of the program development, that they

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were made, like, by and for therapists,

in terms of the educational content.

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So, that was sort of like how Affirm

Mental Health was born, and my goal was

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to provide CE courses that aren't just

evidence based, but really relevant to

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daily realities of clinical work, so

therapists could feel more confident,

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they could feel they're strengthening

their skills, and hoping that would

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translate to people feeling more engaged

and more fulfilled, because when we feel

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like we're thriving and doing good work,

that clearly translates to improved

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outcomes, and I also wanted this to

reach the clients that we're treating.

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Natasha Moharter: You really saw from

your own experience that there was a need,

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that there was a gap in accessibility for

continuing education units that really

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matter, that can actually be effective

and supportive in our work with clients.

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I think it's also really neat that

you brought in kind of representation

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of, not venture capitalists, we are

clinicians, boots on the ground, doing

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this work, and what is important to us.

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Your podcast episodes are very engaging

and I think they are very relevant.

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One of my favorite ones was on the AI.

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And it's neat to have those conversations

and be able to listen to that and

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say, Okay, these are real things that

we're trying to navigate right now.

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Shaina Siber-Sanderowitz: And

that's like what's so much fun about

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doing a podcast, this format allows

us to be so timely and relevant.

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I'm in the process of recording a podcast

episode about gender affirming care and

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response to the legislation some of which

has been dropped within hours or days

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of the podcast recording, so it just,

you know, being able to reach learners

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in real time when they're actually

struggling with these issues and having

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these questions is such an additional

gift that you know, when I started this,

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I didn't really know, um, that this would

be part of it, but I am so glad it is.

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Natasha Moharter: Think

that's so, so neat as well.

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And so when you started Affirm,

you started it as a solo effort.

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What were some of the biggest challenges

as well as some of the wins along the

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way when you're kind of at it solo?

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Shaina Siber-Sanderowitz: So it was

me, myself and I, and, I was terrified.

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So when I told everyone I was moving

to Arizona and starting my own business

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and that I wanted to launch my own

accredited continuing education program.

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I kept on hearing like, you're so brave.

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Oh, you're so brave.

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And it's like, I don't, I mean, I'm

sure that's intended to be a compliment,

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but it's like, Oh, no, like, people,

I don't know if I want to be brave.

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Um, so, you know, internally, I was

thinking I'm 100 percent self funded,

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my family is relying solely on me for

my income, my children need to eat, they

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need clothes on their back, it's a massive

financial risk and, you know, moving

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across the country was expensive and my

husband and I made the decision that he

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would take over family responsibilities,

while I focused on growing the business

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and, that meant no more employer provided

health insurance, no more 403b, 401k

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contributions, no safety net, you know,

just me building something from scratch.

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And I think taking the leap was

the hardest part because I had this

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incredibly, clear, compelling vision of

the life and business I wanted to create.

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And what I could offer, and the

people that I wanted to reach,

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but I had to push past that fear.

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I think there was a long time that, you

know, I thought about this, but I was

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like, when I'm ready, when I have enough

money, when these conditions all are

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met, and, you know, it was like, tick

tock, tick tock, and those conditions

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were not going to come to fruition.

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It required action of me, and, I think

for a lot of people, COVID brought a lot

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of clarity of what is truly important,

and I wanted more time with my family,

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I wanted more freedom and flexibility.

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I wanted to do things that were creative

and felt aligned with my personal values.

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So, I just knew, like, okay,

you have to do it scared.

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You gotta do it with your hands shaking,

terrified, and just walk into the fire.

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Beyond the financial and emotional risk,

I think one of the biggest challenges was

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simply how much I had to learn, all at

once just to figure this out, like where

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to file my business, how to set up the

tax structure, how to set up payroll,

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what tech do I need to launch courses,

how to structure my business model, how

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to launch my clinical private practice.

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And I would say even now marketing is

still my biggest challenge and I think

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marketing is both an art and an investment

and I still have a lot to learn.

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I also struggled with imposter

syndrome, everything I saw about

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running a business screamed, you

must have a hyper defined niche.

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I'm an integrative therapist

through and through, and I spent

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years in community mental health

managing these massive caseloads.

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My private practice is a wide range

of clients with transdiagnostic

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presentations, and I get

interested in a lot of things.

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I have a lot of passions, a lot of

interests, and I didn't know if I

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could succeed without niching down.

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You know, I kind of felt like a

jack of all trades and a master of

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none, but ultimately I realized that

most clinicians, especially those

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in group practices and community

mental health or early in private

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practice, they aren't super niched

down either, they need to know a lot

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about a lot, they need practical,

flexible, evidence based trainings

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that reflect the realities of clinical

work across different populations.

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Most people doing clinical work are not

you know, handpicking their patients.

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They're getting assigned a caseload.

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Their intakes are being

scheduled on their behalf.

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So they need to be prepared

for a wide range of clinical

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presentations, people with different

social and physical locations.

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So that's the risk I was taking serving

therapists who, like me, wear a lot

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of hats in their private practice.

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And then there's been

so many incredible wins.

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I'm so happy with the decision to

just start before I felt ready.

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Little things like when I first

got my logo for my business

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I was crying like oh my gosh!

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Even my my business when it was like just

like the simplest little landing page

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it like these moments just got exciting.

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I started putting the trainings out there,

either led by other clinicians or myself.

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I put out a 10 hour self study on gender

affirming care, and somebody wrote me the

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most beautiful review on that training.

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They were an older clinician, like

probably close to retirement, in

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their late 70s, and just talking

about how a lot of what they were

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exposed to was conversion therapy

and looking at sexual minority and

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gender minorities as mental illnesses.

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And he just gave me this beautiful

feedback about how this training had

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shifted his worldview and that he wished

he had done it decades earlier and that

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he was so happy that he was taking it even

if he didn't even know if he was going

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to ever work with gender diverse clients.

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I was like, oh okay, this is why I'm

doing this and those sort of wins

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are so incredible and so fulfilling.

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Natasha Moharter: I so appreciate

your willingness to share a little bit

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more about kind of the mindset that

has to go into creating something.

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We want to wait for the right conditions,

or we do see other people being successful

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and we're like, Oh, we have to figure out,

you know, exactly their systems, or what

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are they using, or okay, niching down,

great, what does that look like for me?

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And not all of us fit in,

in those boxes, right?

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And it is risky to go out on our

own, but it can also be so, so

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incredibly fulfilling as well.

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One of the reasons that I actually

really like your podcast too, is you

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do have diversity included, and I could

see where they're very relevant, very

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helpful for clinicians in their practice.

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And I can only imagine how many

clients then get impacted by that.

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Shaina Siber-Sanderowitz: And I think I'm

so lucky because I get to benefit from

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having a really broad lens, but then I

talk to people who are super specialized

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and niched out, and they're just, like,

brilliant about what they know well, and

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I get to just, like, soak in their genius.

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I think that's one of the most

fun things, too, in both the live

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virtual workshops I offer and the

podcast, I'm not always the trainer.

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I'm oftentimes not the person who's

like featuring the educational piece.

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So I also get to benefit so much

from the courses I offer selfishly.

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So also through that lens, I'm

like, what do I want to learn?

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What do I want to hear about?

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What do I want to know more about?

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And, um, I think just like me

authentically being interested and

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inspired by the amazing people that

have been so generous to come and

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teach for Affirm or be featured on the

podcast, you know, has really, served

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it to be sort of an authentic brand.

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Natasha Moharter: One of the

reasons I love doing this podcast

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is because I really get to connect

with different providers that are

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also, I'm like, how did you do that?

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How did you jump through the hoops

and push past the fear and imposter

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syndrome and everything else.

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Shaina Siber-Sanderowitz:

Yeah, absolutely.

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And I think just like being

transparent too that my podcast is

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not monetized, and I think that, uh,

yeah, that's the part that's hard.

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You know we see sometimes a lot of people

succeeding in this space and it, you

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know, like anything else that's being

sort of forwardly presented we kind of

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fill in the blanks and make assumptions

about their income and how it's like

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generating and I think right now my

business is very much an investment and

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I believe in it wholeheartedly and you

know, I'm so excited to scale but right

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now, yeah, it's my one-to-one clinical

work that is like supporting this business

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and you know, I want to be transparent

with other people that have this

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interest of diversifying their income.

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don't give up because I think a lot

of it is slower and more steady than,

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you know, social media or sort of our

assumptions would lead us to believe.

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And, you know, I'm totally okay to be

transparent about that because I think

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therapists are awesome and they have

so much to share and being willing

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to do it, like, slow and small and

consistently like if something doesn't

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blow up overnight doesn't mean that it's

not valuable and a worthy contribution.

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Natasha Moharter: You bring up another

really good point and you mentioned

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this earlier about the marketing piece.

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I think, uh, so as a, as a clinician,

I didn't do any sort of studying for

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business or marketing or advertising.

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And so this has all

been kind of new for me.

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And one of the things that I've

realized on this journey is marketing

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is you have to play the long game.

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You really have to continue to,

to be consistent, to show up.

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And sometimes, when I first started

putting out my own trainings,

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I wasn't advertising as much.

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I thought, oh, I'll post something and

then nobody shows up or has interest,

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well, I guess that wasn't a good idea.

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Shaina Siber-Sanderowitz: Yeah, and I

think we're all on the other side of that,

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we're inundated with ads and content and

we see things all the time, you know,

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bypassing something or not engaging with

something doesn't mean it's not valuable,

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so I really try to discern the quality

of my program based on people I'm able

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to successfully get in the door, the

people who actually take the courses

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and, it's just been so overwhelmingly

positive, that's what, like, kind of keeps

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me engaged, but like most of the things

that I put out, in terms of advertising

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on social media, I get one thumbs up

on Facebook, three hearts and I'm like,

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yeah, we did it, the willingness to show

up and feel invisible and ignored and

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stupid, is, 90 percent of the battle.

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Natasha Moharter: There was a training

that I wanted to register for.

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So I went and I was like, oh,

let me go register for it.

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Clicked onto it.

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And then lo and behold, there's

other things distracting me.

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Right?

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So then I'm like, oh

okay, and I move forward.

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That training was still something that I

wanted to do, but it wasn't until a couple

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of weeks later when I saw it advertised

again that I was like, Oh, Oh yeah, I went

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to click on that and I got distracted.

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So I do think that sometimes when

we're kind of putting ourselves out

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there and it feels anxiety provoking,

we can say, Nobody likes it.

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It was a bad idea.

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Somebody might have had

ADHD and got distracted.

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And it's okay.

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We just need to tell them again.

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Shaina Siber-Sanderowitz:

Yeah, exactly, exactly.

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Natasha Moharter: So you are growing

and you've brought on someone

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to support your vision, how has

that changed the way you operate?

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How you're growing?

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Shaina Siber-Sanderowitz: Yeah, so,

shout out to Lyndy, my Operations

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: 00:17:16

and Marketing Coordinator.

286

: 00:17:18

Bringing on Lyndy was amazing.

287

: 00:17:20

And, you know, honestly, scary,

um, I knew that if I wanted to

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: 00:17:24

grow, I had to invest in a team.

289

: 00:17:27

I'm doing like 30 plus hours of

clinical work a week and I was

290

: 00:17:31

trying to grow the CE program,

as much as I can independently.

291

: 00:17:35

And I, you know, recognized at a certain

point, I definitely had to let go to grow.

292

: 00:17:39

Like it was just the only way.

293

: 00:17:41

But I also wanted to do it like ethically.

294

: 00:17:43

I wanted to pay someone well.

295

: 00:17:45

I wanted to offer them flexibility.

296

: 00:17:47

I wanted to create a

work experience for them.

297

: 00:17:50

So putting someone on payroll was like

definitely the biggest and most important

298

: 00:17:54

investment I made in my business, and

it's really helped in the way I operate,

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: 00:17:59

you know, so just as an example, before

I hired Lyndy I was about 85 percent done

300

: 00:18:06

with my ASWB accreditation application.

301

: 00:18:10

So that's for The Association

for Social Work Board.

302

: 00:18:14

And I hit a wall.

303

: 00:18:15

I can hyperfocus and I

can fly through something.

304

: 00:18:19

But then when I hit a roadblock

and all those small details and

305

: 00:18:23

organizational work come up it

starts to feel like reading code

306

: 00:18:27

or, a language I don't understand.

307

: 00:18:30

And Lyndy, on the other hand, just has

strengths that I don't, so when she came

308

: 00:18:34

on, we were able to get through that

application, she's incredibly organized,

309

: 00:18:37

she's detail oriented, and on top of that,

she's just a very genuinely kind person.

310

: 00:18:42

Also, in terms of, like, just letting

yourself start small, like, to me,

311

: 00:18:46

like, uh, someone's values and their

worldview and their mindset was

312

: 00:18:53

more important than their resume.

313

: 00:18:55

Not that she doesn't have wonderful

experiences and all of that, but she

314

: 00:18:59

didn't have any marketing experience.

315

: 00:19:01

She had never worked for

a mental health service.

316

: 00:19:04

She never worked for a digitally

based business, but she intuitively

317

: 00:19:08

understood the ethos of Affirm Mental

Health, and she was so willing to

318

: 00:19:13

learn, I couldn't have started to

scale this business without her.

319

: 00:19:16

The entire last year has been

about building the backend

320

: 00:19:20

infrastructure so that we can scale.

321

: 00:19:22

She helped automate so many administrative

tasks and CE related processes.

322

: 00:19:27

Which freed up my time so I

could focus on creating content

323

: 00:19:31

and networking with educational

clinicians growing the business and

324

: 00:19:35

doing my psychotherapy practice.

325

: 00:19:37

She was also the one who really pushed

me to launch the Affirming Minds Podcast.

326

: 00:19:42

I initially thought that was something

we would do much further down the line,

327

: 00:19:45

but with her support we were able to

launch it within like four weeks within

328

: 00:19:50

deciding that we were going to do it,

and then we could just move forward.

329

: 00:19:53

So I think especially because I still

am doing so much clinical practice,

330

: 00:19:57

which I love, I'm just doing a lot

of it, I'm still a little bit in that

331

: 00:20:01

trading time for money, and I think

bringing her on was really sort of, um,

332

: 00:20:07

valuing my time in a different way I

really want to optimize my time for the

333

: 00:20:11

things that are going to be contributing

most meaningfully to the business.

334

: 00:20:15

Natasha Moharter: I also appreciate

that you share your experience of really

335

: 00:20:18

balancing and maintaining a pretty

large caseload while you're trying

336

: 00:20:22

to launch this other project as well.

337

: 00:20:24

As we look at adding additional

income streams sometimes we have

338

: 00:20:28

to be the patron of our own art.

339

: 00:20:30

My clinical work is funding this project

right now with the intention and the goal

340

: 00:20:34

of it being self sustaining eventually.

341

: 00:20:36

Shaina Siber-Sanderowitz: Yeah, that's

my hope, you know, my fingers and toes

342

: 00:20:39

are crossed and I really believe in that

potential and I think now we're really

343

: 00:20:44

in a position that that's possible,

but you have to build it out first.

344

: 00:20:48

If there was some wild world

where a year ago that thousands of

345

: 00:20:54

people started signing up for our

membership, I wouldn't have been ready.

346

: 00:20:58

You know, like, it would have

imploded on itself in a way.

347

: 00:21:01

And now I think I've grown into, with

Lyndy's help, a position that we actually

348

: 00:21:06

can sustain a much larger audience

and that we can give them a great

349

: 00:21:11

experience through the whole process

in terms of an educational experience,

350

: 00:21:15

which I think was always there, but

now also a customer service experience.

351

: 00:21:19

Because people have to purchase

things, they're putting in credit card

352

: 00:21:22

information, they want to make sure

the email doesn't go to spam and the

353

: 00:21:25

tech is convenient to use on their end.

354

: 00:21:28

And, you know, I have people

that are coming in with all

355

: 00:21:31

different levels of tech savvy.

356

: 00:21:33

Like some people, it's just

like, they're taking an online

357

: 00:21:36

course for the first time.

358

: 00:21:37

They don't know like the

buttons to push or whatever.

359

: 00:21:40

So we had to make sure it was intuitive.

360

: 00:21:42

And a lot of it was like, launching,

putting it out there, and then

361

: 00:21:46

refining as we go, and there

was sort of no way but through.

362

: 00:21:49

Natasha Moharter: Clarity is kind of

one of my words for this year, and it

363

: 00:21:53

is so much more challenging to simplify

things than to kind of just, you know,

364

: 00:21:58

I tend to kind of be maybe wordy, or

like, I'll put a lot of information

365

: 00:22:02

on, on older flyers that I would have

for trainings and things like that.

366

: 00:22:05

And I'm like, when I scroll through

and I see lots and lots and lots

367

: 00:22:09

of wording, I don't necessarily sit

and look at it all, so I wonder if

368

: 00:22:14

that's happening to mine as well.

369

: 00:22:16

And then how do you

advertise in a sentence?

370

: 00:22:19

Right?

371

: 00:22:19

How do you advertise with colors or

make your logo something that matches

372

: 00:22:23

the this product that I have, right?

373

: 00:22:25

Not too complex, easy to see on

little micro buttons and Google and,

374

: 00:22:30

you know, all the little things too.

375

: 00:22:32

There's so many logistical pieces that

go into it and it's totally doable.

376

: 00:22:37

Absolutely.

377

: 00:22:38

And if it's not your strong suit, we

hire somebody else and we help you get

378

: 00:22:41

them kind of on board with that as well.

379

: 00:22:43

Shaina Siber-Sanderowitz: Yes.

380

: 00:22:44

And I think contrast brings clarity.

381

: 00:22:47

So sometimes we get clarity by something

going wrong and be like, Oh, okay.

382

: 00:22:50

So we're not going to do that.

383

: 00:22:51

You know, experience being

the greatest teacher.

384

: 00:22:54

Readiness and people feeling like

they have to be ready, whatever

385

: 00:22:57

that means, is the greatest

barrier to a lot of these things.

386

: 00:23:02

Doing it is what gets you ready.

387

: 00:23:03

Messing up is what gets you ready.

388

: 00:23:05

Falling on your face is what

gets you ready, you know?

389

: 00:23:08

Natasha Moharter: Totally does.

390

: 00:23:10

Shaina Siber-Sanderowitz: Yeah.

391

: 00:23:10

Natasha Moharter: I think it's not

my favorite to be uncomfortable.

392

: 00:23:12

And to, like, be anxious and

questioning and uncertain.

393

: 00:23:16

And yet, that is the

biggest teacher, right?

394

: 00:23:19

I was learning keywords for SEO

and I put together a certain

395

: 00:23:23

phrase and I was like, great.

396

: 00:23:24

And then I posted it and I was like, that

sounds odd, but now it's out there that

397

: 00:23:30

would take a lot of time to redo that.

398

: 00:23:32

I'll pay attention as I go forward.

399

: 00:23:34

Great.

400

: 00:23:34

Shaina Siber-Sanderowitz: Yeah.

401

: 00:23:35

Natasha Moharter: How did you

develop your business mindset and

402

: 00:23:37

what advice would you give to other

clinicians who want to do the same?

403

: 00:23:41

Shaina Siber-Sanderowitz: Yeah, I think

even in my previous role at the hospital

404

: 00:23:44

in New York that I worked at I naturally

gravitated towards program development.

405

: 00:23:49

So if I saw a gap or a problem, I

wanted to come up with a solution.

406

: 00:23:54

I wanted to try to see like, okay,

well, what can we do about it?

407

: 00:23:57

Both of my last supervisors there would

comment that I had an entrepreneurial

408

: 00:24:01

spirit, and I was like, huh, I didn't

really see it in myself, I could be

409

: 00:24:04

very self critical, so I believed I

had the soft skills but not the hard

410

: 00:24:09

skills that I needed for business.

411

: 00:24:11

But now I see things a bit differently,

I think therapists actually have so many

412

: 00:24:14

transferable skills to entrepreneurship.

413

: 00:24:17

You know, we're constantly solving

problems, we're adapting to

414

: 00:24:19

new challenges, we're thinking

creatively, and I think those are all

415

: 00:24:23

essential for building a business.

416

: 00:24:25

And so much about entrepreneurship is

just figuring things out as you go.

417

: 00:24:29

So, a big part of my preparation

was just like listening to personal

418

: 00:24:34

and business development podcasts,

most of which had nothing to do

419

: 00:24:38

with mental health specifically.

420

: 00:24:40

And just sort of adopting the mindset

that everything is figureoutable.

421

: 00:24:44

You don't have to have all the

skills in place before you start,

422

: 00:24:46

you just have to be willing to learn

and experiment and take action.

423

: 00:24:49

I think a big piece of it for

myself was that I was going to

424

: 00:24:53

give myself credit for everything.

425

: 00:24:55

Like, there was no way to, like, prevent

myself from having self critical thoughts

426

: 00:24:58

or maybe some shame or embarrassment

in the process, but with intentionality

427

: 00:25:03

and consciously, like, every time I

took action towards this goal, like,

428

: 00:25:06

I was going to acknowledge that and be

with that and savor that, no matter the

429

: 00:25:12

outcome, like, that I was just gonna be

encouraging to myself the whole time.

430

: 00:25:17

And, to me that that is what I have

come to see like my specific brand of

431

: 00:25:22

being entrepreneurial is persisting

forward with some self kindness.

432

: 00:25:29

So I think for clinicians who want

to develop business acumen recognize

433

: 00:25:33

that you have transferable skills.

434

: 00:25:35

Recognize like you're not

starting from scratch.

435

: 00:25:37

Therapy trains you to be adaptable

and intuitive and resourceful

436

: 00:25:41

and all of that will help you.

437

: 00:25:43

I think it's just sort of like

bringing out what is already

438

: 00:25:46

entrepreneurial within you rather

than thinking It's something you don't

439

: 00:25:49

have that you have to earn or get.

440

: 00:25:51

Instead of focusing on what you don't

know, lean in what you can figure

441

: 00:25:54

out, invest in your learning, and I

think, podcast books, courses, and then

442

: 00:26:00

surround yourself with positive people.

443

: 00:26:02

If you're gonna be around people that

speak to your limitations or tell you why

444

: 00:26:07

it's gonna be too hard or too challenging

or why it's not gonna work, that can

445

: 00:26:12

be sort of, infectious, and no shade to

people that sometimes people are trying

446

: 00:26:16

to be helpful or play devil's advocate.

447

: 00:26:18

That's their temperament.

448

: 00:26:19

They're a bit of a contrarian.

449

: 00:26:20

But I think being able to really protect

your energy and your peace when you're

450

: 00:26:24

doing that, and pull in people that

like, can see it with you and sort of,

451

: 00:26:30

uh, screen out people that are going

to uh, overemphasize on the problem.

452

: 00:26:36

You know that's how our brains are

wired anyway, that's like the easy

453

: 00:26:39

thing is to see the problem and

see the challenge and the threat.

454

: 00:26:43

I think it takes the skillfulness to

override that and see the possibility

455

: 00:26:47

and I again I think that's the mindset

piece, and the most important thing

456

: 00:26:53

is take action before you feel ready.

457

: 00:26:55

You'll never have all

the answers up front.

458

: 00:26:58

But as you mentioned clarity is so

important and it really comes from action.

459

: 00:27:03

Natasha Moharter: We have

to also encourage ourselves.

460

: 00:27:06

We have to be able to say

like, I did a hard thing.

461

: 00:27:09

It was really challenging.

462

: 00:27:11

It was scary.

463

: 00:27:12

I might have cried, but I did it.

464

: 00:27:14

It's there.

465

: 00:27:15

I put it out there, right?

466

: 00:27:17

And I think about, sometimes

some of the fears of like, Oh,

467

: 00:27:19

well, what if I get a bad review?

468

: 00:27:21

What if somebody doesn't like my stuff?

469

: 00:27:24

That will hurt.

470

: 00:27:25

It probably will suck.

471

: 00:27:26

Shaina Siber-Sanderowitz: Your stuff

is not going to be for everybody,

472

: 00:27:28

and I think that's absolutely okay.

473

: 00:27:30

I was a little shell shocked

when I first started reaching out

474

: 00:27:34

and putting my stuff out there.

475

: 00:27:35

The name of my business

is Affirm Mental Health.

476

: 00:27:37

The branding colors are the

colors that are indicated in

477

: 00:27:41

the transgender pride flag.

478

: 00:27:43

And that is a communication that my

Business will always be, no matter the

479

: 00:27:49

political climate, centering that mental

health should be a safe, affirming

480

: 00:27:55

space for gender expansive folks.

481

: 00:27:57

In terms of the clinical education that I

put out, certainly we have some courses on

482

: 00:28:01

that, but the vast majority of things are,

you know, more broad and things like that.

483

: 00:28:07

I've gotten some emails from people

that have, you know, sent me some, like,

484

: 00:28:13

incredibly transphobic things, and I,

you know, I'm a cisgender woman, I am

485

: 00:28:19

just simply someone who advocates for

these educational, clinical experiences.

486

: 00:28:24

And obviously, like, as, a human rights

issue, so, I was like, oh, my goodness.

487

: 00:28:28

But I think I just recognize like

you're putting yourself out there

488

: 00:28:31

in the world and you're gonna your

presence, your existence, your content,

489

: 00:28:37

it's it's gonna welcome in the people

that it's meant to and for some people

490

: 00:28:42

it's gonna upset them or trigger them.

491

: 00:28:44

And I think I remember when I first

got an email like that I was just

492

: 00:28:48

like it made me sad that people

just have these really visceral

493

: 00:28:52

reactions just to like the suggestion.

494

: 00:28:54

I like wasn't posting anything

that I felt was like particularly

495

: 00:28:58

controversial I think it was about my

gender affirming care course but you

496

: 00:29:03

know, I think I just sort of recognized

that I have to use that as motivation.

497

: 00:29:06

I have to just say, okay, well, this

is the reason that that's a core

498

: 00:29:10

part of my business, like, right?

499

: 00:29:11

I think that, it's easier said

than done, but other people's

500

: 00:29:16

opinions of you has nothing to do

with you, and it's not about you.

501

: 00:29:20

And I think I'm more trying

to be like, am I proud of it?

502

: 00:29:24

Does this align with my values?

503

: 00:29:25

Does this align with what we

want this company to stand for?

504

: 00:29:29

And if any of my clients saw this, heard

this, experienced this would they feel

505

: 00:29:33

like it's in dignity and respect to them?

506

: 00:29:37

Because I think that's important too.

507

: 00:29:38

Like I always want the people

that ultimately are being

508

: 00:29:42

reached to feel respected.

509

: 00:29:45

Natasha Moharter: You know that

you're doing well in your marketing

510

: 00:29:47

or your advertising if you have

people that like you and really are

511

: 00:29:52

attracted to the things that you do.

512

: 00:29:53

And also if you have

people that don't like you.

513

: 00:29:56

Because you're taking a stance.

514

: 00:29:58

You are putting out there that this is

what I do, and this is what I don't do.

515

: 00:30:03

And the people that are going

to be good customers are going

516

: 00:30:06

to be naturally drawn to that.

517

: 00:30:07

And you don't have to serve everyone.

518

: 00:30:09

Shaina Siber-Sanderowitz: Yeah, it's

a very powerful reframe to take.

519

: 00:30:12

Natasha Moharter: So another

question, Affirm Mental Health

520

: 00:30:15

offers CEUs in multiple formats.

521

: 00:30:17

So live workshops, you do self

paced webinars, and pod courses.

522

: 00:30:22

How does this approach enhance

accessibility and learning for therapists?

523

: 00:30:26

Shaina Siber-Sanderowitz: Yeah,

I think as I mentioned, I want to

524

: 00:30:28

really over deliver to the people

who take their hard earned money and

525

: 00:30:32

invest it into education with Affirm.

526

: 00:30:36

They have so many options

nowadays, which is great.

527

: 00:30:38

I really want to provide continuing

education that fits into their

528

: 00:30:42

lives, not that they have to be

moving mountains to make work.

529

: 00:30:47

And then there were some

practical aspects as well.

530

: 00:30:49

As a licensed clinician in New York,

24 out of our 36 CEUs that we earn

531

: 00:30:55

in our tri annual review period have

to be from live, interactive content.

532

: 00:31:00

And many of the continuing education

membership programs that exist

533

: 00:31:03

don't include live trainings

at all, or if they do, they're

534

: 00:31:06

sort of prohibitively expensive.

535

: 00:31:09

So I saw a gap in the market there,

and I wanted to create a membership

536

: 00:31:12

that offered multiple formats to

help therapists build the most

537

: 00:31:16

elite therapeutic toolkit possible.

538

: 00:31:19

Therapists have different learning

styles, they have different schedules,

539

: 00:31:22

they have different needs, so offering

multiple formats enhances accessibility.

540

: 00:31:28

In terms of the live workshops, those

provide real time interaction and

541

: 00:31:33

networking opportunities and direct

engagement with expert instructors.

542

: 00:31:37

People can ask questions, people can talk

through cases, obviously barring that

543

: 00:31:42

PHI is protected and all that good stuff.

544

: 00:31:44

In terms of the self paced webinars, it

allows therapists to learn on their own

545

: 00:31:47

time without the constraints of a set

schedule, but also those people that

546

: 00:31:51

really benefit from visual learning and

visual aid in their learning process.

547

: 00:31:56

And then I think for many people, pod

courses are really like game changers.

548

: 00:32:00

You can listen to CEUs on the go.

549

: 00:32:03

You know, I think if there's one thing

therapists don't have is a lot of time.

550

: 00:32:06

I just really wanted to maintain quality

and offer content to more clinicians in a

551

: 00:32:13

way that feels sustainable and supportive

of them and the way they learn best.

552

: 00:32:18

Natasha Moharter: Your courses

focus on process oriented relational

553

: 00:32:22

approaches rather than rigid protocols.

554

: 00:32:24

Why would you say that is so

important in clinical practice?

555

: 00:32:29

Shaina Siber-Sanderowitz: Yeah, I mean, I

personally, I have lived experience with

556

: 00:32:32

both trauma and mental health challenges,

and one of my biggest priorities is

557

: 00:32:37

reducing this divide between us and them.

558

: 00:32:40

You know, in a lot of my educational

experiences the way that, like, clients

559

: 00:32:45

were talked about sometimes, I'd be

Oh my goodness, like if they knew

560

: 00:32:49

about me, would they be judging me?

561

: 00:32:50

It felt sometimes like judgmental and

obviously that varied and sometimes it

562

: 00:32:54

was like few and far between because

I've also had amazing trainers and

563

: 00:32:57

mentors and supervisors along the way.

564

: 00:32:59

But I really do love that more clinician

educators are leaning into sharing their

565

: 00:33:05

lived experiences, not as something

that undermines their expertise,

566

: 00:33:09

but something that legitimizes it.

567

: 00:33:11

And you know, at Affirm Mental Health

I really want our training to serve a

568

: 00:33:15

purpose that's not over pathologizing

people, that acknowledge that this being

569

: 00:33:21

a human being thing is pretty hard, and

the focus should really be on leveraging

570

: 00:33:25

clinical treatment to help people build

meaningful lives and relationships.

571

: 00:33:30

Not just allowing rigid frameworks,

and that's the criteria and lens I use

572

: 00:33:35

for everything we put through Affirm.

573

: 00:33:37

And that's not to say that we don't

share evidence based treatments

574

: 00:33:42

that have protocols to them.

575

: 00:33:45

We do trainings on ERP, Cognitive

Processing Therapy, Prolonged Exposure,

576

: 00:33:51

all which have structured treatment.

577

: 00:33:54

However, the clinician educators we have

have a flexible lens and they can really

578

: 00:34:00

talk about it in a way that translates to

real clinical practices and the realities

579

: 00:34:05

and challenges that come with that.

580

: 00:34:07

I think that therapy is fundamentally

about the relationship that we have

581

: 00:34:10

with ourselves and other people.

582

: 00:34:12

And sometimes when we're

clinging too tightly to rigid

583

: 00:34:17

protocols, we fail to capture the

complexity of human experiences.

584

: 00:34:22

There's some people that think

that anything that is not 100

585

: 00:34:26

percent in pure fidelity is

sort of like bullshit treatment.

586

: 00:34:30

It's like less quality and less value

and I sort of think that our educational

587

: 00:34:35

offerings counter to that a lot.

588

: 00:34:37

We center the person, we center the

people that benefit from the treatment.

589

: 00:34:41

We don't have the treatment

dictate the way that the person

590

: 00:34:46

is served, if that makes sense.

591

: 00:34:48

I think that old adage that principles

over protocols and while structured

592

: 00:34:53

interventions absolutely have value,

taking this process oriented and

593

: 00:34:58

relational approach allows clinicians

to adapt intervention to each client's

594

: 00:35:03

unique needs and their values and their

structural and cultural contexts, to

595

: 00:35:07

foster genuine connections and trust.

596

: 00:35:10

Which I think is really essential

for therapeutic progress and promote

597

: 00:35:14

flexibility and responsiveness and

allow therapists to navigate the

598

: 00:35:18

diverse and nuanced challenges that

arise in real world clinical work.

599

: 00:35:23

I want people to be able to go to

trainings and have it translate

600

: 00:35:27

into the way that they're providing

care and reaching clients.

601

: 00:35:31

So, as I mentioned, I'm an integrative

therapist through and through, so I really

602

: 00:35:35

have no allegiance to any one modality.

603

: 00:35:38

And yet, I feel like I

can learn from everybody.

604

: 00:35:41

You know, I care about what works for

the human being that's in front of me.

605

: 00:35:45

So that's really why we emphasize

evidence based strategies with a

606

: 00:35:48

flexible, human centered framework.

607

: 00:35:51

Ultimately, therapy should be about

meeting people where they are and not

608

: 00:35:56

forcing them into rigid models that don't

reflect the complexities of their lives.

609

: 00:36:01

Natasha Moharter: How do you incorporate

trauma informed and evidence based

610

: 00:36:04

LGBTQ affirming and culturally

affirming principles into your courses?

611

: 00:36:08

Shaina Siber-Sanderowitz: Yeah, so

inclusivity and affirming care are really

612

: 00:36:11

at the heart of Affirm Mental Health, and

I feel like having the name Affirm Mental

613

: 00:36:15

Health kind of keeps me accountable,

like, I have to, I have to be thinking

614

: 00:36:19

about this, um, so, you know, we don't

like check a box, we, I really want to

615

: 00:36:24

focus on integrating the principles at

every level to ensure our courses are

616

: 00:36:29

trauma informed, evidence based, LGBTQ

affirming, and culturally responsive.

617

: 00:36:34

We prioritize those values by

prioritizing trauma informed frameworks.

618

: 00:36:39

So our courses emphasize safety, choice,

collaboration, empowerment, ensuring that

619

: 00:36:46

both clients and clinicians are supported

while reducing the potential for harm.

620

: 00:36:51

It's also recognizing that the

psychiatric, psychologic, social work

621

: 00:36:58

traditions and our frameworks have

historically harmed people, right?

622

: 00:37:02

I think that a willingness to

be with that, and sort of be in

623

: 00:37:06

that acknowledgement of always,

working towards betterment um,

624

: 00:37:10

while sort of that willingness to be

with those, those uncomfortable truths.

625

: 00:37:14

But also not extract the value of

like research and good clinical

626

: 00:37:18

products that have come from that.

627

: 00:37:20

So I think always navigating

that, um, is important for me.

628

: 00:37:24

Using evidence based interventions is

also incredibly important to me, whether

629

: 00:37:28

it's ACT or um, EMDR um, or ERP, we,

you know, we really want to ensure our

630

: 00:37:37

courses are rooted in interventions

with a strong research foundation.

631

: 00:37:41

My priority is clinical

applications, right?

632

: 00:37:44

So I don't want a training that's like

three hours of talking about the research

633

: 00:37:48

base or the theoretical framework.

634

: 00:37:50

And that gender diversity,

cultural and racial diversity,

635

: 00:37:54

it's not an afterthought.

636

: 00:37:56

It's woven into the way we discuss

everything, into case examples

637

: 00:38:00

to interventions and therapist

reflections and challenges.

638

: 00:38:03

So, you know, always highlighting

intersectionality and that mental health

639

: 00:38:08

treatment doesn't exist in a vacuum.

640

: 00:38:10

I'm a big proponent of holding a

structural competency framework, and

641

: 00:38:14

understanding how larger, political,

environmental, structural forces like

642

: 00:38:20

racism, economic policies, et cetera

impact mental health experiences.

643

: 00:38:26

And also thinking about what we

can do outside of the therapeutic

644

: 00:38:30

milieu to support clients in a

way that is protective, proactive,

645

: 00:38:36

and at a community level.

646

: 00:38:38

So, I hope that shines through

in our offerings, it's certainly

647

: 00:38:43

an intention, and it's something

that I'm thinking about a lot.

648

: 00:38:47

Natasha Moharter: Many therapists

dream of creating CEU courses

649

: 00:38:50

but don't know where to start.

650

: 00:38:51

What are the first steps

that you would recommend?

651

: 00:38:53

Shaina Siber-Sanderowitz: Yeah, so, if

you want therapists to receive CEUs,

652

: 00:38:57

you'll need accreditation through a

accrediting body like NBCC or ASWB

653

: 00:39:04

or APA or the state level boards.

654

: 00:39:07

I think that if you're considering

becoming an independent CE

655

: 00:39:12

provider, Google is your friend.

656

: 00:39:14

Where I would specifically tell

you to start is whatever discipline

657

: 00:39:18

you are, so if you're a licensed

professional counselor, I would go to

658

: 00:39:23

the accrediting board where you receive

your own continuing education from.

659

: 00:39:28

So, whether that be NBCC or your local

state accrediting board, depending on

660

: 00:39:34

what the laws are in the particular

state where you are licensed or located.

661

: 00:39:38

I would recommend just starting at the

national level because if you're going

662

: 00:39:41

to do it, why not just get the broadest

scope possible, download the application

663

: 00:39:46

and simply read the application.

664

: 00:39:48

It's so easy to build this up in our minds

to be this big bad monster in your head.

665

: 00:39:54

But if you go through the application,

and highlight what you need, it

666

: 00:39:58

becomes much more tangible and doable.

667

: 00:40:00

And you could say I don't

have this information.

668

: 00:40:02

I do have this information.

669

: 00:40:03

And it will tell you exactly what you

need in order to start the process.

670

: 00:40:08

You'll know where the gaps are, and

then you could actually formulate

671

: 00:40:11

a tangible plan around that.

672

: 00:40:14

I think that if you're not quite

ready to sort of go it alone, you can

673

: 00:40:19

partner with an approved CE provider.

674

: 00:40:22

It's a great place to start teaching as

a guest with an existing CE provider, you

675

: 00:40:27

know, like Affirm Mental Health, just as a

suggestion, but things like PESI as well.

676

: 00:40:31

I think you can apply for your course

to be offered through their programming.

677

: 00:40:35

So it's sort of a great way

to test the waters, before

678

: 00:40:37

building out an entire program.

679

: 00:40:39

And then just in terms of actual

content development, I would say

680

: 00:40:44

choose a topic you're passionate about.

681

: 00:40:46

When I'm looking for podcast guests, I say

what could you talk about for an hour with

682

: 00:40:51

no notes and just ramble on and on about.

683

: 00:40:53

If that also fills a gap in current

training options, great, but I think also

684

: 00:40:59

not worrying about things being saturated.

685

: 00:41:02

I think the more you start with what you

actually like to talk about, the better.

686

: 00:41:07

Almost like every state board requires

ethics, but if you don't like talking

687

: 00:41:10

about ethics, then I wouldn't start there

just because there might be a bigger need.

688

: 00:41:14

And then you work on defining

your learning objectives.

689

: 00:41:18

Like what should participants walk away

knowing or feeling or doing differently,

690

: 00:41:22

because all accreditation bodies will

require clear measurable objectives.

691

: 00:41:27

And then you can start

thinking about the format.

692

: 00:41:30

Will it be live?

693

: 00:41:31

Will it be a self paced

webinar or a podcourse?

694

: 00:41:34

Like right now we're doing this on Zoom,

you press record it issues a recording.

695

: 00:41:39

That is a self study you could populate.

696

: 00:41:41

Even if you don't know your

distribution, like you probably

697

: 00:41:44

have access to more things than you

realize to get the process started.

698

: 00:41:49

And then, obviously once you get all

of that together, therapists need

699

: 00:41:54

to know that your courses exist.

700

: 00:41:56

So, I'm still working on this.

701

: 00:41:58

But social media, podcast guesting,

email marketing, are all great places to

702

: 00:42:03

start in terms of getting the word out.

703

: 00:42:05

I post so frequently because I

have the weekly podcast, and then

704

: 00:42:08

we, run a workshop, and then we,

populate the self study from that.

705

: 00:42:11

So every week there's new content.

706

: 00:42:13

I've been kicked out of a bunch

of groups for posting too much,

707

: 00:42:17

to me that was so embarrassing.

708

: 00:42:19

But again, it's just that willingness,

that willingness to just be

709

: 00:42:23

like, no, I'm just gonna do it.

710

: 00:42:25

I'm just gonna take

forward action every day.

711

: 00:42:27

We'll see what sticks and sometimes it's

just like those funny, like, embarrassing

712

: 00:42:33

moments where you're like, wow, I

really don't know what's going on here,

713

: 00:42:35

but I'm going to keep on showing up.

714

: 00:42:38

Natasha Moharter: I think

that's so, so important, right?

715

: 00:42:39

That piece of like, okay, that

hurts, that stung a little bit.

716

: 00:42:43

And I'm still going to show up.

717

: 00:42:44

I'm going to do it again.

718

: 00:42:45

I'm still going to keep posting.

719

: 00:42:46

I've seen your stuff repeatedly

because of that consistency.

720

: 00:42:50

I've looked into your membership.

721

: 00:42:51

I listened to your podcast

because I'm like, it's cool.

722

: 00:42:55

It's out there.

723

: 00:42:55

You also had interviewed

some ERP specialists, which

724

: 00:42:58

I was like this is amazing.

725

: 00:42:59

I really like them.

726

: 00:43:00

I'm going to check this out.

727

: 00:43:02

But I wouldn't have known

that if you didn't keep

728

: 00:43:04

consistently showing up, right?

729

: 00:43:06

Even if it's anxiety provoking,

even if you only get one thumbs up.

730

: 00:43:09

I do think sometimes people are

lurkers and they don't always

731

: 00:43:12

interact, but they still see.

732

: 00:43:14

Shaina Siber-Sanderowitz: Yeah,

that's what I'm counting on.

733

: 00:43:16

I actually got approached by the

venture capital company, and I have

734

: 00:43:21

like no interest in selling it.

735

: 00:43:23

I think certainly, not to

a venture capitalist firm.

736

: 00:43:26

No offense to anybody

who takes that route.

737

: 00:43:27

It's just not my journey.

738

: 00:43:29

I was like, oh, okay, venture capitalists

are seeing me, so I got out there enough

739

: 00:43:34

that I'm in the competition, and that was

kind of a fun internal moment for, for me.

740

: 00:43:40

Natasha Moharter: That's amazing.

741

: 00:43:41

What a milestone, right?

742

: 00:43:43

That is so cool.

743

: 00:43:45

Shaina Siber-Sanderowitz: Yeah, but, you

know, I think one of the, like, other

744

: 00:43:48

things too is by learning from other

people it really benefited my practice.

745

: 00:43:53

So when we started to do the CE

certificates I had no idea how

746

: 00:43:57

to automate the certificates.

747

: 00:44:00

So I looked into a lot of different

companies that could do it.

748

: 00:44:04

It was just like I wasn't making

enough money to justify the cost

749

: 00:44:07

It was way outside of my budget.

750

: 00:44:10

There was no way I could do it and

then I took a CE course and they were

751

: 00:44:16

using Certify 'Em, you know and that

tool streamlined our CE certificate

752

: 00:44:22

process and it was super affordable,

again, like not sponsored by them,

753

: 00:44:28

it's just what I happen to use.

754

: 00:44:30

And that's why it really pays to

see how other people are running

755

: 00:44:32

their programs because it really

can save you time and money.

756

: 00:44:36

I swear, I was researching

this for months.

757

: 00:44:39

You know, and then I also think once

you pick a platform see what's free and

758

: 00:44:44

available within what they're offering.

759

: 00:44:46

So I run my courses through Kajabi.

760

: 00:44:49

Again, like, no sponsors.

761

: 00:44:50

I'm just sharing.

762

: 00:44:51

No gatekeeping.

763

: 00:44:52

There's pros and cons.

764

: 00:44:54

Uh, again, it was one of the bigger

investments that I made in my business.

765

: 00:44:59

They offer all of these courses within

the Kajabi platform that tells content

766

: 00:45:05

creators how do you make a mailing list?

767

: 00:45:07

How do you create a course?

768

: 00:45:08

How do you automate responses?

769

: 00:45:12

All of these things I didn't know about

running a digital business were offered.

770

: 00:45:16

I think just making the time because,

knowledge is power in so many ways.

771

: 00:45:22

I would also say that your Facebook

group, Natasha, has been wonderful for

772

: 00:45:27

me because it fosters a collaborative

environment amongst CE providers.

773

: 00:45:31

Not a competitive environment we can

learn from each other rather than

774

: 00:45:35

treating it like a zero sum game.

775

: 00:45:37

I love to see what other people are

doing and how they're flourishing

776

: 00:45:40

and what they're putting out there

and what they're interested in.

777

: 00:45:43

It's how I find a lot

of my podcast guests.

778

: 00:45:45

I would definitely endorse

your Facebook group.

779

: 00:45:48

I love it.

780

: 00:45:49

Natasha Moharter: I so

appreciate that, Shaina.

781

: 00:45:50

That definitely is the

goal of that group, right?

782

: 00:45:52

Is to kind of have us all come together.

783

: 00:45:54

You don't have to be a venture capitalist

in order to pursue these types of goals.

784

: 00:45:58

And it's just, I'm so glad

that it has been a resource.

785

: 00:46:01

You're just putting out some really

cool stuff and it's neat to just kind

786

: 00:46:05

of see what that collaboration can bring

or kind of having and fostering those

787

: 00:46:09

different connections and the different

conversations around these topics.

788

: 00:46:13

That's really cool.

789

: 00:46:15

So, what's next forAffirm Mental Health?

790

: 00:46:18

Are there any new courses or

innovations you're excited about?

791

: 00:46:21

Shaina Siber-Sanderowitz: Yeah, I'm

super excited about Affirm Mental

792

: 00:46:24

Health and where we're going in 2025.

793

: 00:46:26

We're really trying to continue to grow

and innovate, make high quality courses.

794

: 00:46:32

Some specific things are expanding

our pod course offerings.

795

: 00:46:36

I feel like I'm always recording nowadays

and I love doing those interviews.

796

: 00:46:40

It's amazing to connect with so

many amazing clinicians doing such

797

: 00:46:45

good work, and bring those valuable

insights directly to our audiences.

798

: 00:46:49

Also doing live courses on topics that

I think are deeply relevant and where

799

: 00:46:54

there's a lot of clinical interest.

800

: 00:46:56

So I have incredible clinician educators

coming up, doing trainings on AI

801

: 00:47:00

and mental health, EMDR, narcissism.

802

: 00:47:03

Um, so, while I host the podcast, I

only lead about 20 percent of our live

803

: 00:47:07

trainings, so it really allows us to bring

in diverse voices and perspectives and

804

: 00:47:13

expertise to really enrich our offerings.

805

: 00:47:16

We have a monthly membership that

is $17 a month, no commitment.

806

: 00:47:20

You could literally come in, do all your

courses and be out for less than $20.

807

: 00:47:25

We also offer group options for

clinics and group practices.

808

: 00:47:30

It's not gonna take the place of being

compensated appropriately or anything

809

: 00:47:34

like that but I think thinking about

what are the ways that you can make your

810

: 00:47:39

program or your group practice a wonderful

place for your clinical teams to work.

811

: 00:47:44

What is really nice is we can work

with group practices and institutional

812

: 00:47:48

partners to say like, well, what

is your clinical staff need?

813

: 00:47:51

What kind of trainings do they want?

814

: 00:47:52

What do your patient population need?

815

: 00:47:54

And then we can tailor our

clinical offerings based on

816

: 00:47:57

the needs of our participants.

817

: 00:47:59

So, you know, we hope to really evoke

more group and institutional partnerships.

818

: 00:48:05

We really want to scale the

Affirm Academy membership.

819

: 00:48:08

And then we launched a YouTube

channel a couple weeks ago.

820

: 00:48:11

We're really just focused on dissemination

and making the information widely

821

: 00:48:15

available by sharing video versions of

the podcast and webinars that I host.

822

: 00:48:20

And, you know, this is especially

important for me to also reach people

823

: 00:48:23

who can't afford CEUs right now, or non

clinicians that still want valuable mental

824

: 00:48:30

health insights, so I'm really excited

to provide this as a free resource.

825

: 00:48:34

I really want my courses to be

accessible, so I launched a lot of

826

: 00:48:37

these courses and was not thinking

about including closed captioning.

827

: 00:48:41

It was a gap in my bias and

my privilege in many ways.

828

: 00:48:45

So I definitely want to go back and

figure out a process for transcribing

829

: 00:48:49

that we can put on the YouTube

podcast versions to be available.

830

: 00:48:53

My long term vision, my like vision

board goal is I would just love Affirm

831

: 00:48:58

Mental Health to be like a go to

platform for continuing education for

832

: 00:49:03

master's level social workers, I'd love

the podcast to reach a broad audience,

833

: 00:49:09

the Affirming Minds Podcast, it's so

cool to see in the analytics for the

834

: 00:49:13

podcast that people are listening

in Malaysia and Spain and Germany, I

835

: 00:49:20

mean, it just like, tickles me so much,

like, I got so excited about that.

836

: 00:49:24

I want to help therapists not just, meet

their CE requirements, but, grow and

837

: 00:49:29

feel confident and feel fulfilled in

their work, so, we're going to keep on

838

: 00:49:34

trucking along and trying to do that.

839

: 00:49:36

Natasha Moharter: You are being

creative in how you disseminate the

840

: 00:49:40

information and, okay, if I create this

membership and an individual can have it.

841

: 00:49:45

What about group practices?

842

: 00:49:46

How do I offer it to them?

843

: 00:49:47

How do I get this out a little bit more?

844

: 00:49:50

And kind of, again, multiple ways of

bringing in additional income for you.

845

: 00:49:55

That's so cool.

846

: 00:49:56

And if you didn't take the risk, to go

put yourself out there and do this, those

847

: 00:50:01

people in Germany or Malaysia might not

be benefiting from some of the stuff

848

: 00:50:05

that you're producing, that you are

putting out, some of these perspectives

849

: 00:50:08

that are really important as well.

850

: 00:50:10

And I just so appreciate your honesty

and your authenticity with this,

851

: 00:50:14

that we are going to make mistakes.

852

: 00:50:16

There are certain things, whether it's

bias, privilege, whatever it might be,

853

: 00:50:20

and it's okay to then say, Oh, okay.

854

: 00:50:24

I'm going to do something else.

855

: 00:50:25

Okay, how do I problem solve that?

856

: 00:50:27

And again, kind of create

that accessibility.

857

: 00:50:29

It's just so, so cool.

858

: 00:50:32

Shaina Siber-Sanderowitz:

Yeah, thank you so much.

859

: 00:50:33

I really appreciate that.

860

: 00:50:35

Natasha Moharter: Yeah.

861

: 00:50:36

So, if people want to find

you, what is your website?

862

: 00:50:39

And how would they go about

registering for the membership?

863

: 00:50:44

Shaina Siber-Sanderowitz: Yeah, so if

you check out AffirmMentalHealth.com,

864

: 00:50:47

you could check out our courses.

865

: 00:50:49

You can sign up for a membership there.

866

: 00:50:50

If you're already, a member,

you can log in there.

867

: 00:50:53

AffirmMentalHealth.com

868

: 00:50:54

is like really the hub.

869

: 00:50:55

If you want to follow us on social media

we're @AffirmMentalHealth on Instagram.

870

: 00:51:01

Feel free, you can, follow me on LinkedIn,

I'm Shaina Siber-Sanderowitz, I always

871

: 00:51:05

love to connect, love to hear from people

what kind of courses they're interested

872

: 00:51:09

in seeing from Affirm Mental Health.

873

: 00:51:11

Also anybody who's interested in

becoming a CE provider and has

874

: 00:51:15

questions about how to get started.

875

: 00:51:17

I always love to see people

taking action on their dreams.

876

: 00:51:21

So.

877

: 00:51:23

Natasha Moharter: Are you

accepting new podcast, uh, guests?

878

: 00:51:27

Shaina Siber-Sanderowitz: Oh, yeah.

879

: 00:51:27

Natasha Moharter: If so where can

they reach out to you for that?

880

: 00:51:29

Shaina Siber-Sanderowitz: Oh, yeah.

881

: 00:51:30

Um, I am accepting new podcast guests.

882

: 00:51:32

So for the Affirming Minds

Podcast, check it out.

883

: 00:51:35

You can email me at shainasiber

lcsw@affirmmentalhealth.com.

884

: 00:51:40

Also, if you go to our website and

if you look through the courses

885

: 00:51:43

there's a tab where if like people

are interested in becoming instructors

886

: 00:51:48

they can take a look at that as well.

887

: 00:51:50

Feel free to email me.

888

: 00:51:52

You could also send a private message on

our Instagram, whatever is most helpful.

889

: 00:51:58

Natasha Moharter: That's

so incredible, Shaina.

890

: 00:51:59

Last thing, is there anything else that

you want to make sure that we highlight?

891

: 00:52:03

Shaina Siber-Sanderowitz: I think that,

I would just echo that same, like, start

892

: 00:52:06

before you're ready, you know, whatever

that's applying to in your life right

893

: 00:52:09

now, just start before you're ready.

894

: 00:52:11

Natasha Moharter: Absolutely.

895

: 00:52:12

Such amazing advice.

896

: 00:52:13

You had mentioned earlier that

you were kind of researching for

897

: 00:52:16

several months at times, and there

is going to be research involved.

898

: 00:52:19

We're going to have to find and do digging

and how do we search for the things we

899

: 00:52:22

don't know what to search for just yet.

900

: 00:52:24

We can get caught, I'm guilty of

this, in procrastination learning

901

: 00:52:29

and trying to feel ready enough.

902

: 00:52:31

It just emphasizes that, are

we ever going to feel ready?

903

: 00:52:35

But we learn when we get out and we do it.

904

: 00:52:38

Shaina Siber-Sanderowitz: Yeah

905

: 00:52:39

Natasha Moharter: Shaina, it

has been such an honor and a

906

: 00:52:40

privilege to have you here today.

907

: 00:52:42

I so appreciate your time and your

willingness to share your expertise and

908

: 00:52:45

your willingness to share more about

the Affirm Mental Health Podcast, the

909

: 00:52:49

trainings that you offer, and just the

things that you're doing in the field.

910

: 00:52:53

Shaina Siber-Sanderowitz:

Yeah, absolutely.

911

: 00:52:54

Well, and likewise, the feeling is

very mutual and I love your podcast

912

: 00:52:58

and again, just like for our own sort

of self encouragement, 90 percent of

913

: 00:53:03

podcasts don't make it past episode three.

914

: 00:53:06

I'm like super proud this upcoming week

I'll be releasing my 21st podcast which

915

: 00:53:14

will put me in like the 99th percent

of podcasts for not giving up, right?

916

: 00:53:20

So, you know, I think also people

are feeling like the market is

917

: 00:53:25

saturated in any of these spaces.

918

: 00:53:27

The perseverance is key and it's

the consistency over intensity.

919

: 00:53:33

You can never lose if you are

willing to continually show up

920

: 00:53:38

and not give up on yourself.

921

: 00:53:40

So I feel like we should both mutually

be proud of ourselves for getting

922

: 00:53:43

past those statistics and keeping with

it, even when it's hard and scary.

923

: 00:53:48

Natasha Moharter: Thank you so much

for that encouragement, Shaina.

924

: 00:53:50

Honestly, when I see you posting yours

every week, I post one about once a

925

: 00:53:54

month, is kind of my cadence right now.

926

: 00:53:56

And I see yours weekly, and

I'm like, that is so badass.

927

: 00:54:00

And, Podfade?

928

: 00:54:01

Mm mm.

929

: 00:54:01

Not for Shaina.

930

: 00:54:04

Not for me either.

931

: 00:54:05

We are going to absolutely embrace that.

932

: 00:54:07

Because, like you said, it's, I think

that, we start to put out projects

933

: 00:54:10

like this and we can feel new, it

can feel uncomfortable, and it can

934

: 00:54:13

feel like did I even do a good job?

935

: 00:54:15

I don't even, what am I

even trying to do here?

936

: 00:54:18

It's important to me.

937

: 00:54:18

I'm going to keep growing.

938

: 00:54:19

I'm going to keep learning.

939

: 00:54:20

Shaina Siber-Sanderowitz:

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

940

: 00:54:22

Natasha Moharter: Again, such

an honor to have you here today.

941

: 00:54:24

Such a pleasure to be able to meet with

you and to chat with you about this.

942

: 00:54:28

I would love to have you back in

the future as you continue to grow

943

: 00:54:31

your trainings and the podcast

and everything that you're doing.

944

: 00:54:35

Shaina Siber-Sanderowitz: Yeah.

945

: 00:54:36

Absolutely.

946

: 00:54:36

And I would love to have you on the

Affirming Minds podcast to talk about OCD.

947

: 00:54:40

I'm really excited to just hear so much

about your clinical perspectives as well.

948

: 00:54:44

So absolutely.

949

: 00:54:46

Anytime.

950

: 00:54:46

I'll come back.

951

: 00:54:47

Anytime.